Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 715
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-07-02
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: on careless cross-reference... (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
2 (no subject) (mind)  87 sor     (cikkei)
3 *** MOZAIK *** #780 (fwd) (mind)  33 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: query (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: hun. lang. (mind)  111 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind)  111 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Hapsburg heirs visit Vienna after 80 years (mind)  57 sor     (cikkei)
9 Mario's Cyberspace Station on three continents! (mind)  97 sor     (cikkei)
10 Folkmusic CD's (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
11 need hungarian -> german translation for a holiday to H (mind)  86 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: *** HUNGARY *** #712 (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
13 Testing (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
14 Hello! (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
15 Exclusive Budapest condo forsale (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: Does anybody know what this is? (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind)  40 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: I'M A LEGEND IN MY OWN MIND (mind)  46 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind)  241 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind)  67 sor     (cikkei)
21 1100 Jubilee Celebration (mind)  50 sor     (cikkei)
22 Exhibit (mind)  37 sor     (cikkei)
23 Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
24 Re: on careless cross-reference... (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
25 Re: Testing - and Juhasz (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
26 Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)
27 Re: Testing - and Juhasz (mind)  49 sor     (cikkei)
28 Mail error messages from jpte / Re: Testing - and Juhas (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
29 Re: Testing (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
30 Re: Testing - and Juhasz (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
31 Re: Testing - and Juhasz (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
32 info about holidays at Hungary (mind)  4 sor     (cikkei)
33 Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
34 Re: Does anybody know what this is? (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
35 >>Tibor Benke (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
36 Soros - www site (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: on careless cross-reference... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 09:57 PM 6/26/96 -0400, Ferenc Novak wrote:
>Eva Balogh wrote in Hungary#710:

>> But what I don't understand
>>is the following: why do you think that Gyorgy Ilsovszky actually talked
>>about you. Perhaps Hosszu's first name is Ferenc.
>>
>>        Eva Balogh
>
>There you go again, f.p. What business is it of yours?

        What a polite gentleman you are!

        Eva Balogh
+ - (no subject) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Can anybody help me to translate this into hungarian.
It is a diet for people who can't have gluten.
I want to go on holiday to Hungary and it helps me
to stay healthy and not get sick.

The translation will go to an non-profit organisation
so that other people can also visit hungary and enjoy
the food.

This is an german version from the organisation but you
can help them to have more languages avalilable.

Please e-mail to : 

thanks in advance,

Joeri Belis, Belgium

ps: this is a repost after the net abuse

************************* translate from here ************************

Gl|tenfreies didt:

Alle ndhrungsmittel die gl|ten enhalten sind strengstens berboten;
das sind also alle produkte die aus roggen, weizen, hafer und
gerste zusammengesetzr sind.

Nicht erlaubt:

Brot
Zwieback
Paniermehl (Brvsel)
Roggenbrot
Honigkuchen
Kuchen

Salzkeks
Weizen-griesmelh
Pulver
Melh
Gebdck
Kuckenmehl

Fertig-suppen
Fertig-saucen
Nudeln(Macaroni)
Fadennudeln
Spaggetti
Wurst

Gestattet:

Reis
Cornflakes
Riceflakes

Buchweizenmehl
Sojamehl
Maizena
Pudding
Maismehl

Tips f|r die zusammensetzung von Glutenfreie Mahlzeiten

Das FR\HST\CK kvnnte bestehen aus : schinken un ei
                                    Joghurt mit cornflakes
                                    Milch mit Cornflakes
                                    Maisgries-oder Maizenasuppe

Das MITTAGESSEN : Alle sorten fleisch nich paniert und die sauce mit
                  maizena oder sojamelh zubereiret
                  Kein melh grbrauchen
                  Kartoffeln, gekocht oder gebacken

Das NACHTISCH: Alle sorten fr|chte, Fr|chtebrei. Krem oder Pudding aus
               maizena oder reismelh.
               Reis eventuell mit obstbrie. Eis

Das ABENDESSEN : Omelette (ohne melh) mit milch, maizena oder sojamelh,
mit
                 pilzen, gem|se, fleish oder fisch gef|llt
                 Salat ist gestattet wenn nicht miet salatsauce
zubereitet
                 Gestattet ist auch selbstgemacht Mayonnaise zubereitet
it
                 ei, vl, essig und krautern
+ - *** MOZAIK *** #780 (fwd) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

These two news items, relating to Hungary, are most interesting.  Some of
you may not have read them.

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

OMRI DAILY DIGEST
No. 125, 27 June 1996

HUNGARY'S INTEGRATION COMMITTEE ANGRY OVER EU QUESTIONNAIRE SECRECY.
Members of the Hungarian parliament's European Integration Committee are
complaining about secrecy surrounding the government's responses to the
EU's questionnaire on potential membership, Hungarian dailies reported
on 27 June. Foreign Ministry State Secretary Ferenc Somogyi--who has
been coordinating the work in the respective ministries--said on 26 June
that parliamentary deputies will only be able to see the finalized
version of the EU questionnaire responses and that Integration Committee
members would be given only a verbal briefing by the prime minister. The
forms are due to Brussels by 26 July. The various bodies involved in
coordinating Hungary's EU integration have been battling over turf for
the past year. -- Zsofia Szilagyi

SOROS: HUNGARIAN INTERNET CENTER PROMOTES OPEN SOCIETY. A new Internet
and computer-arts center set up by his foundation in Hungary will
promote the free flow of ideas and information in post-communist Eastern
Europe, Hungarian-born U.S. financier George Soros said on 26 June. The
center will "facilitate a horizontal, non-hierarchical network of
communication which fits in with our concept of an open society," Soros
told Reuters at the opening of the Center for Culture & Communications.
The equipment, including advanced computer-imaging equipment and 14
Internet terminals, is valued at $1.5 million. Soros is a leading
advocate of communications technology as a means of promoting democracy.
In May he announced a five-year, $100 million program to install
Internet connections at universities across Russia. -- Zsofia Szilagyi
+ - Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 07:00 PM 6/25/96 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:
>This week's 'Corporate Citizen of the Week Award' goes to Gabor D. Farkas

Thank you.

>Go for it Gabor!  Perhaps with divine intervention all those nasty teachers'
>unions will finally be brought to heel.

You are right, nothing else seems to do it.

>And, God willing, maybe you can
>tell us the next sector of society you'd like to impoverish.


Not impoverish. The average teacher in our school district makes $80,000.
All I am saying is: enough, let's just keep up with inflation but no more
raises otherwise.

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: query (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Here's a couple of more for your list:

There's a small town between Minneapolis and New Ulm in south-central
Minnesota, called "Balaton" that is near a small, shallow but long lake.  It
was settled in the late 1880's by a small group of families from just east
of the "original" Balaton who thought the Minnesota countryside in that area
reminded them of home.  (I think this was before they had experienced their
first Minnesota winter, however...)

I will be visiting some rock-hunting/mining areas of Idaho near the
"Hungarian River" in the Boise National Forest.  The river was named for a
mining camp occupied predominantly by Hungarians who had come to that part
of Idaho during its gold rush of the 1870's.  By the way, generally, if
people stuck around long enough to have something named after them in that
area, they weren't doing too badly.  I hope some of their good luck still
lingers around there for another couple of Hungarian visitors.

I know of a few other places with Hungarian names, too, but I'll have to add
them to the list when I return.  I've still got to finish loading the
minivan, _and_ send out a mailing for the Hungarian American Chamber of
Commerce, but just thought I'd let you know I appreciate the thread and
could remember at least a couple of places amid all the present mental and
physical chaos.  Hope the thread keeps going awhile longer!

Cecilia

N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA
+ - Re: hun. lang. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Ferenc;

At 06:11 PM 6/21/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Of the eight characteristics you add on Hungary, Hungarian language and/or
>
>culture, you sadly miss six right answers.
>- The Hungarian culture IS a European culture; after all, Hungarians have
>lived in Europe for exactly 1100 years now. Isn't that enough for you?
>- The Hungarian race IS a European race. In 1100 years people of (perhaps)
>
>darker skins interfear with light-coloured Slavs and Germans. Mixtures is
>the logical consequence. In every way, Hungarians are NOT of a Mongolic
>Turk
>race. What makes you think so? The 'roots' of the Hungarian people lie in
>the Urals. That makes Hungarians a Uralic people, with a Uralic language.
>Nothing Mongolic Turk with that.
>- The Hungarian history is European history. It were the Hungarians, who
>saved Europe from the Turkish and the Tartaric dangers. The only role the
>Hungarians could have played, is the role of victims. Because we WERE
>victims throughout history.
>- The Hungarian religion is NOT imposed Christianity; the Hungarian people
>
>was Christianised as early as the year 1000 AD.
>- The Hungarian economy is a complete free market-economy by now.
>- The Hungarian politics are dominated by issues, not by other countries.
>Have you ever been in the country? Or rather, have you ever been in
>another
>country outside yours? Do you know what a democratic country is?
>Do you happen to know anything about Hungary? Guess not. So, please, don't
>
>write nonsense.
>
And where were the Hungarians as a people before roughly 800 A.D.?  Is the
entire human race only 1000 years old?  Are the genetics in everyone only
1,000 years old.? Funny, that's not what anthropologists and geneticists say.

Then there's the little problem of two invasions by excessive-testosterone
males from farther east.  Ever read just how large the harem was for Batu
Khan alone?  Sure, they killed a lot of their prisoners when they left after
only about 2-1/2 years of occupation.  But do you know how many
escaped--even among those who went east for awhile?  Do you know how many
children managed to get conceived and born in just 3 years or so--especially
when the Mongols made such a big deal out of "killing the males, and
embracing their wives and  daughters."  Do you really think the Turks were
nicely celibate in the 150 years of occupation of the entire center of
Hungary, meanwhile raiding almost all the way to Vienna periodically?

Then there's another little problem called "intermarriage."  Until the end
of feudalism--and the development of mass transportation, most marriages
beneath the very wealthiest upper class, until oh, sometime in the
mid-to-late 1800's didn't occur any farther than a horse or mule could get,
comfortably in about a half day.  And, most families really didn't want
their daughters marrying "strangers."  So, if we've been pretty inbred until
only the last 150 years ago, where did our people originate before they
settled into inbreeding in the Danube basin, hmmm?

Come on Ferenc, the Celts were here in Europe--including the Danube Basin
for at least 3500 years, and even they don't claim all their genetics
starts/stops with their European historical memory.

By the way, I have been in Hungary, and was partly raised in an ethnic
Hungarian neighborhood in the U.S. that was nearly completely isolated from
the non-Hungarians--because they didn't want us "dirty hunkies" around.
Until the 1950's, we weren't even (officially) allowed on Toledo beach, and
the KKK periodically rode through our neighborhood shooting it up and
tossing gasoline bombs in people's homes and businesses.  Trust me, they
sure as heck didn't want to _marry_ us and extend our genetics...

Oh, one other note: I also descend from Genghis Khan--and am proud of it--
through the Nyers family, and there are parish records indicating that a
particular female in the ancestry was part of Batu's harem, and escaped with
a baby son.  The original records are still in a village somewhere near
Hatvan. (My late cousin had transcribed notes, but they were misplaced when
the ceiling and walls fell in the house he'd lived in due to water and ice
damage to a roof.  All his remaining papers were just kind of grabbed
together and stuffed in whatever dry part of the attic or basement could
still be found--along with tons of other stuff.)

Ferenc, just where and when did you study your own Hungarian history, and
anthropology?  Say, Peter, are you still around?  I think any further
response is up your alley.  Have fun!


By the way, yes I saw the original mess summarizing the Hungarian
people/kings that Ferenc so indignantly answered.  It wasn't much better.
Somehow I rather doubt the Habsburgs and Anjous then, and certainly their
descendants now--would have liked/would like to read themselves described as
"Mongolian" kings or something like that.  True, some of the Habsburgs were
physically degenerate enough, or birth-defected to perhaps qualify as
"Mongoloids," but I think there was a fairly big difference between the
early Arpad dynasty, and certainly the Khan's and anything originating west
of what is now Eisenstadt.  Of course, one ancestor of the Anjou's,
Melusine, wasn't even human, and the Anjous/Plantagenets (the name one
branch took, including the one who eventually became the British royal
family at one point) were pretty inbred too...   Melusine is supposed to be
still around and capable of both shape changing (seemed to like lions,
dragons/serpents, wolves, and flying besides, quite a bit) and had a rather
unpredictable temper.  You might want to be a little careful about how you
describe the Anjous especially should you ever visit southern France. ;-)


Cecilia








N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA
+ - Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Group;

At 07:47 AM 6/27/96 -0700, you wrote:

>You wrote:
>>
>>In article >, Charles
>Mikecz
>>Vamossy > writes:
>>
>>> Maybe it's time for my family
>>>to move also to a state that is not chocked by unions.
>>>
>>>
>>>regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Charlie Vamossy
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Charlie, you're welcome to move to North Carolina. We hate unions.
>Just be
>>forewarned that outside of the Wake County, Chapel Hill City and
>>Mecklenburg County public school systems, the rest of our system of
>public
>>education is appalling in quality. I'd move to Chapel Hill if I were
>you.
>>They have the best public schools in the state. Be careful, though --
>>they're a bunch of liberal wierdos who like unions. No accounting for
>>taste, I guess.
>>Sam Stowe
>>
>>Ceci n'est pas une sig
>>
>
>Sam,  we may just end up moving to North Carolina when we retire...
>
>As far as teachers unions and the quality of education is concerned, I
>don't see a lot of correlation.  A community's willingness to spend
>more on education through higher taxes has a lot more to do with it.
>Higher educational and ongoing training requirements for teachers,
>higher salaries for that recognize these requirements,  higher spending
>on computers, books, etc. -- these are the factors that truly determine
>the quality of education.  In addition, the emphasis the community
>places on education, their expectations for their children and parents
>willingness to participate, also counts a great deal.
>
>Unions have little to do with it.  True, they add a 10-15% to
>compenation, and ensure great benefits, but they also shelter the
>underperforming teacher, stand in the way of progress if that means
>fewer staff (not necesarily teachers) or changes in work habits.
>
>Westchester NY schools, many of which have a reputation for excellence,
>are also good examples of union featherbedding, where teachers who
>should have been fired a long time ago, sit around doing meaningless
>work, because the union protects them.  If we had no unions here, we
>would have an even better educational system, and a lot less headaches.
>
>As far as teacher's pay is concerned, it should be determined by the
>market, just like any other profession's.  I am sure that the Chapel
>Hill school district pays more and gets better teachers than the
>neighboring counties because they are willing to pay more for
>excellence, not because they have a good union.
>
>
>regards,
>
>
>
>
>Charlie Vamossy
>
>

Oh good grief!  And I thought you had to be specific in writing the tax laws
and bond issues and then spend some money on providing a means of
enforcement to make sure the money gets spent the way the taxpayers intend
to get _high quality_ education.  Gee does this mean that the districts out
here that have larger, better maintained buildings than some of the junior
high schools are actually the best districts in the U.S.--despite the fact
that 50% of their students literally--no exaggeration--regularly use drugs,
and almost 70% of them can't read or write at even a 4th grade level?  With
the last bond issue--and a modest reallocation of state revenues here, they
bought more land, added another administration building, fired janitors,
closed several libraries--and then hired a couple of public relations
personnel to (and this is a direct newspaper quote) "improve the image of
the school district to the students' parents."  By the way this is in
Silicon Valley--and this is why the employers mostly hire graduates from
other states and countries.

We spend a lot of money here, more than the national average and more than
the state average, yet we have some of the poorest quality schools and
districts in the nation.  But I guess all that marijuana, cocaine, angel
dust, etc., etc. must be adding to the general air pollution and fogging my
brain.--  Go ahead, then, just spend money and don't look, just believe and
it will be real... and if you tap your heels three times together you'll
land in Oz, not Kansas after all.  Wheeee!

Money, money, money--money makes the world go round, la-la-la-la.  I forget
the rest, Sam you'll have to continue this one. Have fun while I'm gone.  I
will, too! ;-)

Cecilia





N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA
+ - Re: Hapsburg heirs visit Vienna after 80 years (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 11:28 AM 6/21/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>From the news:
>
>* Sons of last Austro-Hungarian emperor were in Vienna yesterday for
>  first legal visit after nearly 80 years in exile.
>    - Felix and Carl Habsburg visited parliament and thanked
>      supporters for letting them come back home.
>    - Habsburgs were banished in 1919 after the defeat of the
>      Austro-Hungarian empire in World War 1.
>
>Does anyone have more data about them?  How old are they?  Where do they
>live?
>
>Martha
>
>

They are fairly old.  The emperor Karl, their father, died in 1922.  I
believe they were all born before 1920.  Otto, their older brother lives in
Germany, somewhere near Munich.  Some of his nieces and nephews live in
Austria, and I believe one lives in Lichtenstein.  The empress Zita, was of
the House of Bourbon-Parma--Italy.  There was a National Geographic (?)
article about them a few years ago, maybe 5 or 6 years, now.

One of the biggest mysteries in history, though, is what happened to all the
jewelry of the Habsburgs after World War I?  The emperor and empress had
thought it was sent to Switzerland for them through an Italian.  He
disappeared, and so did the jewels that were supposed to be held in
Switzerland so they could be sold to keep the ex-royal family from poverty.
This is why Karl did die at a young age, in poverty and with very poor
medical care.  He had TB.  The British sent him to live on the cold, damp
heights on Madeira, then abandoned the family and did nothing for them.  He
contracted pneumonia and the local doctor they found who would treat him for
next to nothing then gave him second degree burns over a sizeable portion of
his body with too-hot mustard plasters.  He died in agony.

There's a good book that may help answer some questions called _The Last
Habsburg_.  It was written about 20 years ago.  I forget who the author was.


I hope I did better on this one than the answer to "Pressburg."  At least
this time you folks all know the information is partly from old
sources--including possibly this "poster." ;-)

Cecilia

P.S. If I oops again on something, please don't be upset if you don't get a
correction right away. I'll be gone for about 8 days.  Hopefully if tumbling
rocks don't further addle the little gray cells, any necessary apologies
will be coming sometime after July 7.  I did buy that hard hat I was
thinking of, by the way.  We'll see how well it works soon.  ;-)





N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA
+ - Mario's Cyberspace Station on three continents! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: Mario's WWW on three continents
> ======================================================================

Is there at least one good reason to visit
* Mario's Cyberspace Station* ?
(Global Menu - Online News Worldwide)

Top 5% (Point Com) * Top 125 (Hebdo Magazine) * Rated 10 (Best Lynx of
the Week) * Approved by: Yahoo, CNN Interactive, Pathfinder, Virtual Library,
Chinese Web Sites, USAFE, Canadian National Security etc.

------------ Mario's web sites on three continents: -------
Europe Home ---- URL: http://public.srce.hr/~mprofaca/
America Mirror --- URL: http://www.unm.edu/~vuksan/mario/
Australia Mirror ---URL: http://hrvati.cronet.com/mprofaca/
> -----------------------------------------------------------

*** A taste of war: * War in Croatia *  War in Bosnia and Herzegovina
* Croatian Mother's Appeal * People Gone Lost in the War *
Top 3 War Criminals Wanted *  International Criminal Tribunal *
UN * NATO * EU * USAF * UNPROFOR * IFOR * Aviano Air Base

*** Intelligence and Counterintelligence (Kim Spy Mirrors):
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(Croatia in CIA W. Fact Book 1995)

*** Spiritism and Reincarnation Projects for "former Yugoslavia":
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* Dismantling former Yugoslavia, recolonising Bosnia (by Michel Chossudovsky)
* Dayton: Bosnia Peace Agreement: President of Bosnia and Herzegovina Alija
Izetbegovic's letter to the U.S. Secretary of State Waren Christopher
* Thessaloniki, Centre of the Interbalkan Cooperation * "The idea of Yugoslav
Confederation or Union of the Independent Yugoslav States, also died"
(by Vladimir Milcin) * Ask Croatian President Dr Franjo Tudjman * Ask
Slovenian Prime Minister Janez Drnovsek * Ask FYR Macedonia President Kiro
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*** Global Menu: More than 120 (so far...)
countries and teritories Mario's pages

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For more informations on Mario's Cyberspace Station
turn to CNN Text Mario's Page - where available... :)

Mario Profaca
Freelance Journalist
Zagreb, Croatia
-------------------------




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+ - Folkmusic CD's (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

: What is the best folkmusic CD out in the market?

--
Michelle Sandler

+ - need hungarian -> german translation for a holiday to H (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Can anybody help me to translate this into hungarian.
It is a diet for people who can't have gluten.
I want to go on holiday to Hungary and it helps me
to stay healthy and not get sick.

The translation will go to an non-profit organisation
so that other people can also visit hungary and enjoy
the food.

This is an german version from the organisation but you
can help them to have more languages avalilable.

Please e-mail to : 

thanks in advance,

Joeri Belis, Belgium


************************* translate from here ************************

Gl|tenfreies didt:

Alle ndhrungsmittel die gl|ten enhalten sind strengstens berboten;
das sind also alle produkte die aus roggen, weizen, hafer und
gerste zusammengesetzr sind.

Nicht erlaubt:

Brot
Zwieback
Paniermehl (Brvsel)
Roggenbrot
Honigkuchen
Kuchen

Salzkeks
Weizen-griesmelh
Pulver
Melh
Gebdck
Kuckenmehl

Fertig-suppen
Fertig-saucen
Nudeln(Macaroni)
Fadennudeln
Spaggetti
Wurst

Gestattet:

Reis
Cornflakes
Riceflakes

Buchweizenmehl
Sojamehl
Maizena
Pudding
Maismehl

Tips f|r die zusammensetzung von Glutenfreie Mahlzeiten

Das FR\HST\CK kvnnte bestehen aus : schinken un ei
                                    Joghurt mit cornflakes
                                    Milch mit Cornflakes
                                    Maisgries-oder Maizenasuppe

Das MITTAGESSEN : Alle sorten fleisch nich paniert und die sauce mit
                  maizena oder sojamelh zubereiret
                  Kein melh grbrauchen
                  Kartoffeln, gekocht oder gebacken

Das NACHTISCH: Alle sorten fr|chte, Fr|chtebrei. Krem oder Pudding aus
               maizena oder reismelh.
               Reis eventuell mit obstbrie. Eis

Das ABENDESSEN : Omelette (ohne melh) mit milch, maizena oder sojamelh,
mit
                 pilzen, gem|se, fleish oder fisch gef|llt
                 Salat ist gestattet wenn nicht miet salatsauce
zubereitet
                 Gestattet ist auch selbstgemacht Mayonnaise zubereitet
it
                 ei, vl, essig und krautern
+ - Re: *** HUNGARY *** #712 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>off the statue and I can still see this young fellow on a bicycle
>"speeding" away while holding a piece of the statue high up in the air
>with one hand, smiling.
>
>I am stopping right here, forgive me for talking too much. It has almost
>been 40 years of the day. The beat goes on.
>
>A. Szucs/Pellionisz, I wish you would just shut up! Go out and play in the
>traffic!
>
>mep

Thank you MEP for sharing your 1956 with us. It wasreally  beautifull told
and I would like to hear the rest of it.

I am in an upcoming show in New York at The National Arts Club and would
like to invite HUNGARY reader's from the New York area to see it. I am also
a'56-er and it is a major part of this autobiographical piece.

"Home is where The Art is,
or,
'Hybryd Affairs"

Opening is on Wednesday, July 10, 1996 6:00pm - 8:00pm

The National Arts Club
15 Gramercy Park South
New York, NY 10003

212-475-3424

The Galleries are open daily from 12:00pm - 5:00pm ( I think).
+ - Testing (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I wonder if the problem is with the Hungary server or with Netcom.
Everything is very quiet, today I received two pieces of mail sent on June
27. I also received today  the following message about a posting I sent in
on Friday:

Return-Path: >
From: Mail Delivery System >
To: >
Date:    Mon, 1 Jul 96 1:32:37 MET-1
Subject: Delivery failure notification

With reference to your message with the subject:
   "Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award"

One or more addresses in your message have failed with the following
responses from the mail transport system:

   User > not known at this site.

Should you need assistance, please mail .

I keep getting this message for every posting to Hungary (which I send to
). Is everyone else getting them?

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Hello! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hello!

I am a male Canadian who likes to meet new friends and discuss various
topics. If you are a female of age 25-35 and also like meet new friends,
send me a message.
Regards,

+---------+------------+---------+
|         |            |         |               Paul Newman
|         |     /\     |         |
|         | _|\|  |/|_ |         |               
|         | \        / |         |
|         |  >______<  |         |
|         |     /      |         |
|         |            |         |
+---------+------------+---------+
+ - Exclusive Budapest condo forsale (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

84 m2, 2-bedroom condo overlooking the Buda Hills in a beautiful,
small apartment house of Budapest' s exclusive Rozsadomb disrict
(Nagybanyai Street) is for immediate sale. It features telephone,
garage, hardwood floor and gas central heating. Easy access to the
city: downtown is just a short, convenient 15-minute ride by public
transportation. If you are interested, please send an E-mail to
.
+ - Re: Does anybody know what this is? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Ferenc,

The same message came to me 9 times.  I replied to the individual with a
warning.

Additionally, I have filed a complaint with AOL as well as with Hugh.

The world seems to be full of weirdos, but it looks like HUNGARY is
having an overabundance of them.  This is just one example of it.  Some
people get their kicks in a very strange fashion, I guess.

Martha
+ - Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 02:11 AM 6/28/96 -0700,Tibor Benke wrote:

>Let's see,  how would this work in practice?  Would we go to Mr./Ms. Market
>and have him or her rule on each teacher's compensation package?
>
>No?

No. But if a Westchester, NY school district puts out an ad for a vacant
teacher's job, and there are several hundred applicants, than that means
that the school board is in a position to fire all existing teachers and
hire others at half the price. It means that the existing ones are overpaid.

>School boards
>are already associations of a sort, and not even voluntary ones, since they
>are agencies of governments.

School boards are unpaid people elected by the citizens of the school
district. They are no agencies of the government. However, due to the
strength of the teachers' unions, the state legislations adopted such laws
that make the decision-making power of these boards almost non-existent
(tenure, etc).

>Why then should teacher's right to free
>association be taken away?

No one wants that. But yes, their power of blackmailing the citizens of a
school district should be taken away.

>Someone might reply that unions are not free associations because all
>employees at a job site where there are no "right to work" laws (an
>orvellian concept if ever there was one) may be compelled to join the union
>if there is a closed shop.  But a closed shop is merely the result of a
>voluntary contract between employers and employees arrived through their
>representatives and no one compells anyone to accept a job at a closed
>shop.

Except that if all shops are closed shops, where would anyone not compelled
work?

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: I'M A LEGEND IN MY OWN MIND (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Sorry, Doctor...

Things just do not add up.
Nobody who is unemployed or earns such a piddling amount is able to
afford an AOL account.  Additionally, his English is more sophisticated
than you make it out to be.

Please try a more plausible explanation.

Mrs. Martha


On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Laszlo Balogh wrote:

> SUBJECT: LEGEND
>
> It comes as no surprise to us, Megorov has left the Kalashikov State
> Mental Hospital.
>
> He tries to get a decent paying job (Sanitation Engineer) with an above
> average pay of 4.00 (that's  "chitiri") Rubels a month, but luck seems to
> turn the other cheek.
>
> We're sure he's unemployed, for he has more time to practice his broken
> English on the Net.
>
> His mother, the one who has had the legendary deep 15 minutes
> relationship, with the local Village Idiot, would like to help him, yet
> she barely ekes a living herself on her 2.00 (that's  "dva") Rubels a
> month pension.
>
> His boyfriend, who almost has gotten him pregnant, doesn't care for his
> amorous advances anymore.
>
> So what does our Stupid Bastard do? ...
>
> He practices his broken English on the Net.
>
>
>
> " I'm a legend in my own mind "  ... Slavic Proverb...
>
>
>
> Dr. Laszlo
>
+ - Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Tibor Benke wrote:
>
>In what seems to be a debate about the role of teacher's unions with
>respect to the quality of education, a topic related to the topic of
this
>list only tangentially in that Hungary's teachers' unions are
expressing
>dissatisfaction with both their compensation and the educational
policies
>of the government, (what else is new? :-) )

Tibor, I agree.. we have strayed far from Hungary as a subject in this
debate.  Perhaps it has some relevancy by way of comparison, though...

>Charles Vamossy wrote:
>
>>As far as teacher's pay is concerned, it should be determined by the
>>market, just like any other profession's.
>
>Let's see,  how would this work in practice?  Would we go to Mr./Ms.
Market
>and have him or her rule on each teacher's compensation package?
>
>No?
>
>What I am trying to point out, is that the market, as such, doesn't
>determine prices and wages or anything else.  The market is a system,
which
>when it is operating more or less freely, *allows* buyers and sellers
to
>bargain and agree on a price for a good or service.

The way it works, at least here in the US is that people choose to live
communities which either place a higher or lower  value on education
and other services. These communities then compete with each other for
the services of teachers with high qualifications and experience.  This
competition (dare I call it a market?) establishes the wages for these
teachers.  The individual homeowners (Mr and Mrs Market, as you put it)
pay for these services through taxes they vote on.

>People can bargain
>individually or form associations and bargain collectively.  School
boards
>are already associations of a sort, and not even voluntary ones, since
they
>are agencies of governments.

I am note sure where you live, but around here, in New York State,
school boards and school districts are not part of the government.  To
illustrate it, I live in a school district (Valhalla) which comprises
parts of three different townships (Greenburgh, Mount Pleasant and
North Castle). My Township (Greenburgh) has -- I believe 5 or 6
different school districts within it. None of the Towns or the Villages
have any say in any appointments to Superintendent, Principal, Teacher,
or any job within the school district.

The districts set their own budgets, set their property tax rates,
issue bonds and borrow money on their own. The buildings and grounds
belong to the School District and its people, which is why they are
normally available to them for recreation purposes too. District
policies are set by the elected members of the School Board. They also
hire the Superintendent of School, who in turn hires the rest of the
school staff and manages the schools.

At the same time, I will certainly grant you, however, that there is a
tight association between government and schools.

>Why then should teacher's right to free
>association be taken away?

I don't believe I ever advocated taking that right away.  Teachers are
free to join unions, bowling leagues or country clubs, or whatever.

Let's agree on this:  Union represent significant economic advantages
to teachers, bringing them higher compensation (over and above the
market) and better than average benefits.

What they -- the unions -- DO NOT bring is better education.  That
should not be surprising...  it's simply not their mission to do so.
Some of the best schools may or may not be union shops -- and some of
the worst are the same.

There is, it seems to me, no corelation between the presence of unions
and good education.  The wealth of the community and the value it
places on education has high corelation.  High achiver parents tend to
have high achiever kids who demand and get for them good education,
wheather in Chapel Hill or Scarsdale.  They pay their teachers above
average wages.


>
>Someone might reply that unions are not free associations because all
>employees at a job site where there are no "right to work" laws (an
>orvellian concept if ever there was one) may be compelled to join the
union >if there is a closed shop.  But a closed shop is merely the
result of a
>voluntary contract between employers and employees arrived through
their
>representatives and no one compells anyone to accept a job at a closed
>shop.
>

This is a bit far fetched for me.  While I understand your argument
that you can choose not to be a teacher anywhere in New York City, it
does not strike me very voluntary.  I also question that it is possible
that exactly 100% of the teachers in New York City have voluntarily
stood up and begged Mr Shanker to let them in the union because in
their hearts and minds they were passionate unionists.  Surely in a
free society it is normal to have SOME people who differ with with the
majority. A 100% YES vote on anything, anywhere is always suspect to
me...

>The attitude Mr. Vamossy seems to project is unfortunately common
among
>those whose knowledge of economic relationships consists of memories
of the
>Bolshevism of Eastern Europe and the idealism of nineteenth century
>liberalism and an abismal ignorance of the history of left wing
politics in
>the West, notably the history of the labour movement in North America.

Just for the record and contrary to what anyone may have said about me,
let me state that I have absolutely no memories of the nineteenth
century, economic or otherwise, having been born over 40 years after it
passed. :))

As far a Bolshevism is converned, I have very selected memories of
growing up as a child in Stalinist (Rakosi pajtassal elore!) Hungary,
which I left as a teenager in 56, at that time not exactly a major
participant in the economy there.  If my knowledge of American History
is abismal, (which I do not agree with), it's the result of my American
education.

I base my opinions and observations on my life experience and
participation in the work force here in the US, having worked for
decades in New York City in the financial services industry.  Being an
avid reader, I also try to keep abrest of events through the pages of
my home town paper, the New York Times, WSJ, and several weeklies, of
which the Economist is my favorite. No academician, I nevertheless
consider myself to be reasonably well informed (although one can always
learn more...).

I freely admit that I have little personal experience in left wing
politics other that having a few personal encounters with left wing
politicians and their unfortunate projects that involved my
neighborhood. I am much more familiar with and I generally support
moderate politics and politicians and try to avoid either "wing".

>A lot of heads were broken in the course of earning the right to
bargain
>collectively for us to go back to when unions were considered
"associations
>in restraint of trade".
>
>It continues to amaze me, that the much praised, so called,
>'entrepreneurial' class has not thought of a cleverer way to solve
problems
>then by brute force and must continue to fight to reverse reforms that
it
>allowed when the 'wolf', (or should I say the 'bear') was at the door
in
>the late 30's and early 40's.
>

I readily concede to you that the 10's, 20's and 30's were very
different times than today and that unions had a significant role in
eliminating some of the then current abuses.  Non-union citizen groups,
reform politicians, mainstream political parties and high minded
individual citizens also had an equal if not more important role.  (I
leave the war years out of this, since they were unsual economically
and socially.  During that time unions' power was greatly reduced, in
many cases voluntarily, in the interest of the war effort.)

You will possibly agree with me the the world has changed
significantly, however, in the last 80,70,60 years. The blind militancy
and selfish self preservation tactics of the old time unions are now
badly out of step with the times. If anyone is living off old memories,
as you suggest,  perhaps they are the ones who still go around
retelling tales from nineteenth century Dickens novels about child
labor and involuntary servitude to justify their existence.

Let me share with you an example of anachronistic unionism, as I
experienced it:  our local suburban trains, after a fiery accident a
long time ago, were then required to have a separate "fireman" on board
so that the engineer did not have to add the coal and stoke the fire
while also driving the train.  The union demanded and got this
concession -- a good idea.  After more than half a century passed, our
trains long ago went electric, but the job of "fireman" was still
required, wheather it was needed or not.  The union was clearly not
interested in eliminating the job to benefit the riding public or to
lower the cost of commutation.  Their goal was to keep the railroad
employment rolls high, since employees all paid union dues, which in
turn paid the union leaders salaries and their considerable expenses.

A few of times they actually shut down the whole railroad, preventing
over 100,000 people from going to their jobs and earning their living
for several days or weeks. It finally took two railroad bankruptcies
and changes of management to somehow eliminate the do-nothing,
"featherbedding" job.  That was also the time they eliminated
physically punching a hole into each monthly pass twice every day,
which were sold only at ticket counters and which required four
conductors per train.The railroad introduced monthly passes mailed to
customers which are now visually inspected twice a day by only two
conductors and no "fireman".  So much for progress, reforms and
unions...


>Maybe Uncle Karl was right, bourgeoise consciousness *is* determined
after all?
>

Let's leave old Karl resting in his London grave...  If he was really
as smart as they say he was -- which we don't know, since he personally
never put his ideas in practice anywhere (and his followers sure as
hell botched up the lives of millions for decades) -- maybe he too
would be for curbing the overgrown power of unions, if he were around
today.


>Tibor Benke

>
>Communism was a consequence of Capitalism, have we learned anything?
>

I like to think so...  and we discovered new problems which we will
have to tackle.  Capitalism, to use an old fashioned eighteenth or
nineteenth century word, has reinvented itself many times, reacting to
changing conditions and cataclysmic events.  The advent of unions,
their heyday and now slow demise are part of that story.  Communism, it
seems to me was less fleet-footed and when it finally tried to reinvent
itself, simply collapsed.  I, for one, do not miss it...


with my best regards,




Charlie Vamossy
New York
+ - Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

You wrote:
>
>In article >, "Charles M.
>Vamossy" > writes:
>
>>As far as teacher's pay is concerned, it should be determined by the
>>market, just like any other profession's.  I am sure that the Chapel
>>Hill school district pays more and gets better teachers than the
>>neighboring counties because they are willing to pay more for
>>excellence, not because they have a good union.
>>
>>
>>regards,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Charlie Vamossy
>>
>>
>>
>Hi, Charlie!
>Actually, I don't think they're unionized at all. (does membership in
the
>North Carolina Association of Educators count? They don't do any kind
of
>collective bargaining for any of their members, to my knowledge, but
they
>are pretty powerful politically at the state and local levels.) You're
>also leaving out the demographic part of the equation. Chapel Hill is
a
>university town and the make-up of the student body in its schools is
>skewed accordingly. The rest of Orange County outside Chapel Hill is
in a
>separate school district whose students perform more toward the state
>average. Maybe the major factor in quality between the two school
systems
>is that you can lead a native-born Southerner to culture, but you
can't
>make him think. (pace Dorothy Parker.) Anyway, we'd love to have you
move
>down here when you retire. Just promise you'll vote in favor of school
>construction bonds when they come up at referendum.
>Sam Stowe
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>-------------------------------------------------------"Ana Ng and I
are
>getting old and we still haven't
>walked in the glow of each other's majestic presence..." -- TMBG
>

Thanks, Sam, for your invite.  Chapel Hill is a lovely place, indeed.
If I move there, you can count on me to preserve my property value by
maintaining a good school system, which has a great deal of influence
on it.

If new school buildings are needed or new lab equipment, computers,
etc, I'll even vote for them.  I tend to balk at new football uniforms
for only the few kids who play, but that's another story...


best regards,


Charlie Vamossy
+ - 1100 Jubilee Celebration (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

HUNGARIANS!
                          AND YOU DEAR READERS!
          With the endorsement of the Worl Federation of Hungarians
             and The Office for Hungarians Beyond the Borders
                         A world wide call from
  The Human Rights for Minorities in Central Europe Society, Vancouver, B.C

   We invite you to celebrate with us the one thousand and one hundredth
          anniversary of Hungarian presence in the Carpathian basin.
          On August 20th. the light of our candles will commemorate
   the historic event when the Magyars settled in Hungary 1100 years ago.

        We invite you to light a candle or in your window at 9:00 p.m.
       according to your own time zone at the time, when the ceremonial
           St. Stephen's day fireworks begin in Budapest.
          Let this light shine forth and proclaim we are

                            CELEBRATING !

                     While the candles burn down,
                    let us remember  our history's
               sorrows and joys, setbacks and glories.
        Reflect on the heroic, yet often tragic history of the Magyars:
 in 896 Magyars under command of Arpad settled in the Carpathian Basin.
             in 1000  King Stephen received the title of
                 Apostolic Majesty from the pope.
        in 1241  Mongols invaded and destroyed Hungary.
   in 1456  Janos Hunyadi repelled the Turks at Belgrade,  church bells
      around the world toll at noon to mark this victory.
            in 1526  Hungarians defeated at Mohacs.
           The 150 years long Turkish rules begins.
 in 1686  liberation of Buda with Habsburg help from Turkish occupation.
       in 1848  revolution attempting to end the Habsburg rule.
                  in 1920  Trianon Peace Treaty:
       Deprived two thirds of the nation's sovereign territory.
       in 1956  revolution attempting end of Soviet occupation.
       in 1989  Hungarian part of iron curtain was cracked and
   thousands  were allowed to travel to the West and gain freedom
          Eventually resulting the fall of the Berlin Wall.

             In the event of this jubilee we ask you to
               express your sympathy and recognition

Reminisce  and  Celebrate with us!  Light up a candle of your own!
The Human Rights for Minorities in Central-Europe Vancouver Society  of
B.C., Canada.

On behalf of the society,
Tibor Benke, Secretary
.
+ - Exhibit (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Oops! I omitted my name in last post! See below.

>
off the statue and I can still see this young fellow on a bicycle
>"speeding" away while holding a piece of the statue high up in the air
>with one hand, smiling.
>
>I am stopping right here, forgive me for talking too much. It has almost
>been 40 years of the day. The beat goes on.
>
>A. Szucs/Pellionisz, I wish you would just shut up! Go out and play in the
>traffic!
>
>mep

Thank you MEP for sharing your 1956 with us. It wasreally  beautifull told
and I would like to hear the rest of it.

I am in an upcoming show in New York at The National Arts Club and would
like to invite HUNGARY reader's from the New York area to see it. I am also
a'56-er and it is a major part of this autobiographical piece.

"Home is where The Art is,
or,
'Hybryd Affairs"

Opening is on Wednesday, July 10, 1996 6:00pm - 8:00pm

The National Arts Club
15 Gramercy Park South
New York, NY 10003

212-475-3424

The Galleries are open daily from 12:00pm - 5:00pm ( I think).

Anna M. Mogyorosy
+ - Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Sun, 30 Jun 1996, S or G Farkas wrote:

> At 02:11 AM 6/28/96 -0700,Tibor Benke wrote:
>
> >Let's see,  how would this work in practice?  Would we go to Mr./Ms. Market
> >and have him or her rule on each teacher's compensation package?
> >
> >No?
>
> No. But if a Westchester, NY school district puts out an ad for a vacant
> teacher's job, and there are several hundred applicants, than that means
> that the school board is in a position to fire all existing teachers and
> hire others at half the price. It means that the existing ones are overpaid.

Define overpaid Farkas ur, because in that part of the country, I didn';t
thing 35K a year was exactly the rich and elite level?

So you would propose a race to the bottom? I would agree that high pay
does not necessarily attract the best people (I.e. half the people I took
coursework from for a unviersity degree), but if you get the race to the
bottom, isn't there a level even you would not propose crossing?

Just my two forints worth.

Darren Purcell
Department of Geography
Florida State University
+ - Re: on careless cross-reference... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 09:57 PM 6/26/96 -0400, Ferenc Novak wrote:
 >Eva Balogh wrote in Hungary#710:
>
> > But what I don't understand
> >is the following: why do you think that Gyorgy Ilsovszky actually talked
> >about you. Perhaps Hosszu's first name is Ferenc.
> >
> >        Eva Balogh
> >
> There you go again, f.p. What business is it of yours?

Excuse me, please.  Will you tell me what the above abbreviation means?

Martha
+ - Re: Testing - and Juhasz (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor and others,

I have notified Hugh of this a week ago, and have written the
> about the trouble.  Anything one posts on
the list results on a message like the one you sent us, as Juhasz posted
one item here and must have closed his account in Hungary, without
cancelling his subscription on this list.

Martha

On Sun, 30 Jun 1996, S or G Farkas wrote:

> I wonder if the problem is with the Hungary server or with Netcom.
> Everything is very quiet, today I received two pieces of mail sent on June
> 27. I also received today  the following message about a posting I sent in
> on Friday:
>
> Return-Path: >
> From: Mail Delivery System >
> To: >
> Date:    Mon, 1 Jul 96 1:32:37 MET-1
> Subject: Delivery failure notification
>
> With reference to your message with the subject:
>    "Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award"
>
> One or more addresses in your message have failed with the following
> responses from the mail transport system:
>
>    User > not known at this site.
>
> Should you need assistance, please mail .
>
> I keep getting this message for every posting to Hungary (which I send to
> ). Is everyone else getting them?
>
> Gabor D. Farkas
>
+ - Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Peter Hidas writes:

>. The union did not
> create unemployment in my field but safeguarded the quality of education
> even when the student population went into decline.

Yes, I can see the teachers unions requiring that families have to have
more children to assure the "entitlements" for the teachers. In the mean
time what is happening to "product quality"?

My best story for the current state of events is  as follows:

The principal is leading the student body through the practice graduation
ceremony in the auditorium. "Walk along the side in alphabetical order,
shake hands with right hand.....". At some point a small group of students
start chanting: "Let Bubba graduate, let Bubba graduate!..". The principal
first ignores the chant but as highschool students often do the chant is
picked up by the rest of the student body, with appropriate noise making.
The principal afraid that he'll have a full blown riot on his hand, calms
down the student body and offers the following: "OK, we will give a one
question exam to Bubba, and if he passes, he can graduate with you." The
students push Bubba to the front and he walks up to the podium. The
principal asks him what is 9 x 9 ? Bubba crunches up his forehead, turns
his ballcap around and just about when the principal starts congratulating
himself, he blurts out "81". The principal is wondering how he will justify
his summary action when the rest of the student body starts a new chant:
"Give him another chance!"

Case rested.

Regards,Jeliko
+ - Re: Testing - and Juhasz (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

You wrote:
>
>Gabor and others,
>
>I have notified Hugh of this a week ago, and have written the
> about the trouble.  Anything one posts on
>the list results on a message like the one you sent us, as Juhasz
posted
>one item here and must have closed his account in Hungary, without
>cancelling his subscription on this list.
>
>Martha
>
>On Sun, 30 Jun 1996, S or G Farkas wrote:
>
>> I wonder if the problem is with the Hungary server or with Netcom.
>> Everything is very quiet, today I received two pieces of mail sent
on June
>> 27. I also received today  the following message about a posting I
sent in
>> on Friday:
>>
>> Return-Path: >
>> From: Mail Delivery System >
>> To: >
>> Date:    Mon, 1 Jul 96 1:32:37 MET-1
>> Subject: Delivery failure notification
>>
>> With reference to your message with the subject:
>>    "Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award"
>>
>> One or more addresses in your message have failed with the following
>> responses from the mail transport system:
>>
>>    User > not known at this site.
>>
>> Should you need assistance, please mail .
>>
>> I keep getting this message for every posting to Hungary (which I
send to
>> ). Is everyone else getting them?
>>
>> Gabor D. Farkas
>>
>
I am getting the same message every time I post a letter to


Charlie Vamossy
+ - Mail error messages from jpte / Re: Testing - and Juhas (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Mon, 1 Jul 1996, Charles M. Vamossy wrote:
> >>    User > not known at this site.
> I am getting the same message every time I post a letter to
> 

 That's because the error message has not to do with either list per se,
but with the local problem about the mailer that is (improperly) answering
all email going to there, including list submissions; unfortunately the
postmaster, if any, seems to be asleep at the wheel ;-<. The silver lining
is that at least the bounces only go back to the individual posters and
not to every readers; I've seen lists shut down by such autoreturns
fallen into a loop - not a pretty sight!

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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+ - Re: Testing (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, S or G Farkas
> says:
>
>I wonder if the problem is with the Hungary server or with Netcom.
>Everything is very quiet, today I received two pieces of mail sent on June
>27. I also received today  the following message about a posting I sent in
>on Friday:
>
>Return-Path: >
>From: Mail Delivery System >
>To: >
>Date:    Mon, 1 Jul 96 1:32:37 MET-1
>Subject: Delivery failure notification
>
>With reference to your message with the subject:
>   "Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award"
>
>One or more addresses in your message have failed with the following
>responses from the mail transport system:
>
>   User > not known at this site.
>
>Should you need assistance, please mail .
>
>I keep getting this message for every posting to Hungary (which I send to
). Is everyone else getting them?
>
>Gabor D. Farkas

Gabor,

I have experienced the same thing at least 3 times.
It is very strange.

Marina
+ - Re: Testing - and Juhasz (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hi, Martha and Everybody!

At 15:38 01/07/96 -0400, Martha wrote:
>Gabor and others,
>
>I have notified Hugh of this a week ago, and have written the
> about the trouble.  Anything one posts on
>the list results on a message like the one you sent us, as Juhasz posted
>one item here and must have closed his account in Hungary, without
>cancelling his subscription on this list.

>Martha

I think that is a really good point and is probably what happened, but I
don't understand why *we* the posters would be getting those error messages
back. Surely there must be lots of other messages that are undeliverable for
various reasons, and the error messages go back to Hugh or somebody and not
the posters?

As I remember, Juhasz posted one of those phony moneymaking schemes, didn't he?

Happy Canada Day (July 1 - Canada's Birthday) to Everyone!

Tistelettel,

Johanne

Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 
+ - Re: Testing - and Juhasz (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Mon, 1 Jul 1996, Johanne L. Tournier wrote:
> I think that is a really good point and is probably what happened, but I
> don't understand why *we* the posters would be getting those error messages
> back. Surely there must be lots of other messages that are undeliverable for
> various reasons, and the error messages go back to Hugh or somebody and not
> the posters?

 That would happen if the LISTSERV found the message undeliverable. But in
this case from the outside it looks like the message gets thru because the
mailserver at the target host take sit over - but then at JPTE a local
(misconfigured, IMHO) mailer demon handles what can not get delivered to
the address no longer valid. An error message is generated and swent back
to the sender, whose address is collected from the 'From:' header field.
Like I said in my previous post, it's luck in the unluckiness that the
'bot does not honor the 'Reply-to:' directive, which would make it flood
the whole list with these...
 The problem may go away if Hugh can find and remove the address thru
which the LISTSERV sends articles to Juhasz's account (unfortunately this
may not be as trivial as it sounds). In the meantime please everybody try
not to send any more warnings to the list about this (do as I say, not as
I do ;-() - the readers here cannot do a thing about it!

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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+ - info about holidays at Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

We decided to have our holidays in Hungary during august. We have got a
holiday house in the Matra mountains at Galyateto. Can anyone give me some
more information about the surroundings of this place.
Thanks for any reactions
+ - Re: Corporate Citizen of the Week Award (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 01:26 PM 7/1/96 -0400, you wrote:

>Define overpaid Farkas ur, because in that part of the country, I didn';t
>thing 35K a year was exactly the rich and elite level?

An average teacher who is getting $80,000/year plus totally paid benefits
for nine months of work  in a district where the children are well-behaved
and have no discipline problems is overpaid (IMHO). Teachers (25 miles away)
in New York City's slums get about half of that while risking their lives.

>So you would propose a race to the bottom?

No. All I am proposing is that this is more than enough. Let's stop and just
keep up with inflation.

 I would agree that high pay
>does not necessarily attract the best people (I.e. half the people I took
>coursework from for a unviersity degree), but if you get the race to the
>bottom, isn't there a level even you would not propose crossing?

I am not proposing a race to the bottom (see above).

>Just my two forints worth.

>Darren Purcell

Thank you.

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: Does anybody know what this is? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 10:31 PM 6/27/96 -0400, Ferenc Novak wrote:
>>Subj:  No Subject
>>Date:  96-06-27 19:42:07 EDT
>>From:  
>>Reply-to:       (MEgorov)
>>To:     (Ferenc Novak)
>>
>>Subject: Re: "Marshall Plan"
>>X-Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
>>References: >
>>In-Reply-To: >
>>
>>COUNTRY: Hungary
>>CULTURE: NON EUROPEAN ( MONGOLIC TURKS)
>>RACE:NON EUROPEAN (URAL MONGOLIC)
>>RELIGION: Imposed(CHRISTIAN)
>>HISTORY: Mercenaries( by the will of god or ROME)
>>ECONOMY:Depending on Austria & Germany
>>POLICY: Commanded by Austro -GERMS
>>FUTURE: DEFINITELY UNKNOWN ( BY past and SWW2 REASONS)
>>
>>Note: I do not understand why the Hungarians are not proud of their
>>heritage?
>
>I received not one but three of these weird messages today.  Has anyone else?
> Does anyone know whose sick joke this might be?  I don't intend to answer to
>the sender.
>
>Ferenc

        I received eight and he dumped about 40 identical messages on
soc.culture.magyar. I already wrote to . We should also ask
Hugh to remove MEgorov from the list of contributors because he is obviously
up to no good.

        Eva Balogh

>
+ - >>Tibor Benke (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


>>
>>Communism was a consequence of Capitalism, have we learned anything?
>>

        I'm afraid this statement is not accurate. "Communism"--if under
that term you mean the regime which was introduced in the Soviet Union in
1917--was not the consequence of capitalism. Russia was not a capitalist
country; i.e., it had a very small working class and was basically an
agricultural country. The idea of "Communism" was kindled by a small group
of intellectuals who took advantage of the general misery in Russia during
the First World war and managed to introduce, with the help of disaffected
soldiers, a dictatorship.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Soros - www site (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear all,

In addition to the news item I already forwarded to you, visit the following
site:

                http://www.scca.hu/

It will tell you all about the Soros Internet connection in Hungary.

Martha

AGYKONTROLL ALLAT AUTO AZSIA BUDAPEST CODER DOSZ FELVIDEK FILM FILOZOFIA FORUM GURU HANG HIPHOP HIRDETES HIRMONDO HIXDVD HUDOM HUNGARY JATEK KEP KONYHA KONYV KORNYESZ KUKKER KULTURA LINUX MAGELLAN MAHAL MOBIL MOKA MOZAIK NARANCS NARANCS1 NY NYELV OTTHON OTTHONKA PARA RANDI REJTVENY SCM SPORT SZABAD SZALON TANC TIPP TUDOMANY UK UTAZAS UTLEVEL VITA WEBMESTER WINDOWS