Magyarorszagbam nincs HRC, de azert adnak el hamisitott HRC T-shirtokett
en ot voltam a tavaj es lattam eleg nevetsegessen neznek ki a T-shirtok.

In article >,  says...
>
>Istvan Lippai wrote:
>>
>...
>>     A szakmamban, ha mondok valamit ami nem igaz, azt konnyen (ha 
megvan a
>> tudasod) meg tudod cafolni.  Matematika es fizika tudomanya nem 
megbocsato.
>>  A tortenelem az mas, vannak olyanok akik egy bizonyos allaspontot 
akarnak
>> elorehalasztani.  Tudom, hogy Te nem azok koze tartozol.  Ugyanakkor 
nem
>> vagyok hajlando elfogadni 'aheringer' gyengen burkolt allaspontjat, 
hogy
>> amiert a torok hoditok jok voltak az o oseikhez, a 150-eves torok 
hatalom
>> jo volt a magyaroknak.  O es a tarsai a HUNGARY listan hazudozonak 
hivtak
>> amiert azt mondtam, hogy 1945-1956 alatt a Himnuszt csak a templomban
>> lehetett enekelni.
>>    Mondd meg tortenesz baratom, mi tortent volna, ha egy csoport 
magyar
>> nyilvanos helyen enekelte volna a Himnuszt a Rakosi idelye alatt?
>> Udv: Istvan
>
>En nem hivnalak "hazudozonak", de tevedesrol azert talan szo lehet. 
>Mert igenis meg van a "tudasom" ahhoz, hogy konnyen megcafoljam az
>allitasodat.
>Nem vagyok tortenesz, de nem osregi tortenelemrol van szo. En az
>50-56-os evek alatt nyilvanos, altalanos iskolaba jartam Pesten. Ott
>tanultam meg enekelni (a rendes dallamon kivul) a magyar himnusz masodik
>(alt) szolamat, az iskolakorusban. Elo is adtuk, valami evzaro unnepely
>folyaman. Templomba (mecsetbe, zsinagogaba, stb.) nem jartam.
>Tehat lehet, hogy a te korulmenyeid masmilyenek voltak, es igy maskep
>emlekezel arra, hogy mi volt es mi nem volt lehetseges.
>
>Biszmillah,
>
>Sam

Hi, Sam, most hogy irod, valoban, en is az iskolai korusban enekeltem 
harmadik szolamot, meg hozza nemcsak a himnuszbol, hanem a szozatbol is, 
es a legnagyobb szamunk Beethoven "Isten Dicsosege" volt - na meg a 
Kodaly Punkosdolo!  1951-ben erettsegiztem a Kossuth Zsuzsa (alias Raskay 
Lea) leany gimnaziumban, a legsotetebb sztalini idoben, amikor 
megtiltottak nekunk a ballagast mondvan, hogy az polgari csokeveny, es 
egy osztalytarsunkat kivagtak Magyarorszag osszes iskolaibol mert 
besugtak hogy elmondott egy reakcios viccet.

Agnes

On 6 Feb 1997 07:52:18 GMT, "John Towers" > wrote:

>Hello: would anyone happen to know where I might be able to acquire a
>Hungarian keyboard OR some type of converter? I believe Microsoft has a
>template? for H letters. I have seen ads for Ms.WORKS in H, so it is safe
>to assume that the word processor would include H fonts.
>Short of procuring one from Hungary, does anyone have any ideas?? Yes, yes,
>I can (and will) contact Bill Gates, too.  THX.
>
>Halas lennek ha valaki megtudna mondani honnan tudnek szerezni egy Magyar
>billentyu (??) keyboard-ot VAGY hogy hogyan irnak magyarul Magyarorszagon.
>Koszonom.
Unless you do a lot of Hungarian typing, using a Hungarian keyboard is
a pain in the you-know-what.
A much simpler way is to  put 850 Multilingual (Latin I) in windows
into your  into your autoexec.bat (you probably have 437 now). 
This will not change anything in your daily typing, but if you need
Hungarian Characters you can have them with pressing Alt plus a
number. For example Alt129=ü. 
130, 148,160,161,162,163 will give you all the lower case vowels
and 154,144,153,181,214,224,233 will have all upper case.
I keep a "cheat sheet" nearby for the codes.
This is all explained in the back of my Windows book and easy.
Works in all Windows programs and no loading new keyboard to switch.
Eva
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Eva Kende B.Sc. Author of Eva's Hungarian Kitchen
look for it at: http://kinga.com/cook.html
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

HELLO CRAZY PEOPLE,

PLEASE CHECK THIS URL OUT, IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR SOME
HOT GIRLFRIENDS.....

AND MAYBE TO MEET IN THE NEAR FUTURE !!

http://www.mitchell.demon.nl/maris.htm

Kedves Melbourne-i olvaso'k!

Tudom a soc.culture.magyar egy kicsit szeles koru ehhez a hirhez de
egyenlore meg nem  sikerult leregisztralni a soc.culture.magyar.melbournei
"news group"-ot ;]

A moorrabbin-i Victorian School of Languages ismet beindult.
Az erettsegizo osztalyok eleg nepszeruek, ha jol tudom tobb mint 20
tanulojuk van, miert is ne ezzel is tobb pont lesz a VCE bizonyitvanyban.

Sajnos azonban problemak vannak az also's osztalyokkal.
Egyenlore csak nyolc jelentkezo van, es az elmult evek tapasztalati
mutatjak ebbol mindig van lemorzsolodas.
A moorabbin-i iskola az egyetlen allamilag szervezett iskola Melbourne-ben!

A tanitas szombatonkent, a Moorabbin Secondary College-ban van
(tel: 9579 1044) reggel 9:00 -to"l  12:20-ig.
Ha erdekel a dolog bovebben kuldj Emailt vagy hivd fel oket az iskolaban.

Jo lenne ha minnel tobb gyerek oszejonne, egy politika es vallas mentes
alapon, csak nyelvet es szokasokat tanulni.

Sziasztok
Gyuri >>  <<

I would be interested in corresponding with students involved in Hungarian
folkdancing. I used to have a young friend called Zsolt who was into it.
I can't remember much but it sounded intriguing. A bit like Morris dancing
maybe? Any info gratefully received. I love Hungary and Magyars. Long live
the Crown of St Stephen! ( I even have an icon of him!)
The Basilisk

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
      http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet

Quiet Revolution part of suicide rate
Canadian Press
Globe & Mail, January 7/97

MONTREAL -- The effects of the social disruption from the Quiet
Revolution remain a factor in Quebec's high rate of suicide, the
man who headed a study on why young people kill themselves says.

Marc-Andre Dowd stressed yesterday that he did not want to cite
any single cause because many elements lead troubled youths to
kill themselves.

But he said one ingredient is the social upheaval brought about
by the Quiet Revolution between 1960 and 1966, a period when
Quebec discarded many old religious and family values, and
individuality became more popular.

Mr Dowd said social disruption does not explain the suicide rate
but may be part of the answer, especially when it concerns teens
who feel they don't fit in anywhere.

"Our society changed so rapidly from a really rural and [Roman]
Catholic society to an urban and agnostic one," said Mr Dowd,
vice-president of a provincially funded youth council.

"We must say to our young people that there's a place for them."

Society put heavy emphasis on "competition, performance. Maybe we
should talk more about solidarity."

The Quiet Revolution brought change in a particularly accelerated
way, said Mr Dowd, who cited a variety of factors in suicide
around the world. They range from misuse of drugs and alcohol to
child abuse to the problems of finding a job.

A study by the council urges better co-ordination of suicide-
prevention efforts. It also says anyone treated in hospital for
attempted suicide should not be released without followup care.

It also recommends doctors in general practice get more training
in spotting suicidal tendencies among youths who may consult them
before taking that final step.

The report, says that between 1993 and 1995, an average of 304
males and 58 females in Quebec under 30 took their own lives each
year. The most common method was hanging.

Statistics Canada figures show that in 1990-92, Alberta led all
provinces with an average of 37.8 suicides a year for every
100,000 males aged 15 to 29. Saskatchewan was next with an
average of 6636.6, followed by Quebec with 34.8. Newfoundland was
last at 19.0.

Canada ranked 15th in a World Health Organiation survey of
suicide rates in industrialized countries between 1988 and 1990.
Canada's rate averaged 13.1 for every 100,000 people annually;
Quebec's was 15.5. The highest rate was Hungary, at 40.9.

Tobben kerdezik itt amerikaiak, hogy van-e Budapesten egy Hard Rock Cafe?
Ha igen, legyetek olyan kedvesek egy cimet idevarazsolni.
Koszi,
Balazs

Alapvet”en hib sak azok az elk‚pzel‚sek amelyek Istv nt

tartj k Magyarorsz g megalapit˘j nak ‚s helyeslik Magyarorsz g

akkori "Nyugatbailleszt‚s‚t". Az al bbi kivonatokat a Kanadai

Magyars gtudom nyi T rsas g 1996-os ‚rtekezlet‚re k‚szitett

tanulm nyomb˘l k”zl”m:



     When Istv n returned to Hungary with his German wife and 10

000 German soldiers with the aim of becoming the new ruler of

Hungary, it wasn't surprising that this did not meet with

everyone's approval. Istv n needed foreign backing for his takeover

bid as he lacked sufficient domestic support for his claim to

power. The traditional Hungarian custom granted the right of

succession to the most senior able-bodied member of the ruling

dynasty, and in this case, Kopp ny, Istvan's cousin, was the

designated rightful heir. The traditionalist Hungarian forces led

by Kopp ny were opposed to Istv n's accession to power and to his

plans to Christianize the country, as they justifiably saw in him

the manipulative work of foreign interests which sought to disguise

their objective of political takeover of Hungary with the

propagation of their Western Christian faith. The subsequent events

largely confirmed this, as the German empire was able to create and

exploit a rift within the ruling Hungarian dynasty. Thus, after

Istv n's accession to power, the Hungarian court became replete

with foreign advisors who wielded considerable influence and

represented foreign interests. Thus, Istv n's breaking of ancient

Hungarian tradition and of the Covenant of Blood with foreign

collaboration seems to have been a fundamental cause of the deep

and long-lasting internal divisions and strife among Hungarians and

of their subjugation to foreign interests which have lasted to the

present day.



     The issue of the conversion of Hungary to the Western

Christian faith is a highly controversial one as it was accom-

plished by force against the will of the people and with the

destruction of ancient Hungarian culture, including the Hungarian

religion and runic scripts - thus causing incalculable and irre-

parable cultural losses. It has often been argued that the

Christianization of Hungary and its integration to the West were

not only of great cultural benefit to the Hungarians, but that they

could not have survived otherwise. These ideologically motivated

claims seem unfounded when confronted with the known facts. It is

not without reason that the European Middle Ages are referred to as

the dark ages. This term refers to the general cultural state of

Europe after the fall of the Roman empire: decaying infrastructure

and economy, political and legal anarchy, poor living standard of

the general population (lack of adequate shelter, food, clothing,

health, hygene, education and personal security). It was in this

context that the Church of Rome became a powerful factor with its

own ambitions of absolute spiritual, cultural and political control

and supremacy over the then known world.



     In contrast to the general cultural state of Europe at the

time of the Hungarian settlement, the archeological data and

written historical sources indicate that the Hungarians had a

considerably more developed culture: they were quite familiar with

agriculture even before settling in the Carpathian Basin where they

were capable of establishing a state 1100 years ago. The Hungarians

had their own writing system, the runic script, and a rich cultural

life with their own religion which wasn't some form of primitive

shamanism, but the Magian religion in which all the forces of

nature, the various elements, and the heavenly bodies were

worshipped as manifestations of a single creative force - in

essence monotheism, but without the intolerant, exclusive, dogmatic

and irrational character of the other Near-Eastern religions. At

that time, Hungarian society was more tolerant and free than its

feudal Christian European counterpart. This tolerance was

manifested towards other religions and by the lack of any form of

racial, linguistic, or cultural discrimination as the concept of

Hungarian nationality was not exclusive but open to individuals and

tribes regardless of ethnic origin, and there was no forced

assimilation. All members of the Hungarian nation enjoyed equal

rights under a tribal system which was more democratic than the

feudal system of Western Europe. Hungarian craftsmanship in all

types of materials was remarkably more advanced from a technical

and artistic point of view, just as Hungarian horsemanship,

weaponry and military tactics were more than a match for the

Europeans. Hungarian medical knowledge and personal hygene were

also more developed than those of Medieval Europe, and the social

behaviour and moral standards (code of honor) were also

considerably different.



     It is difficult to imagine what benefit Hungary could have

possibly derived at that time from the conversion to Western

Christianity and from the adoption of the European feudal system.

An unbiased consideration of the facts leads to the conclusion that

the drastic changes imposed upon Hungary by external coercion

nearly 1000 years ago had a detrimental effect on Hungary's

cultural, social, economic, political and demographic development,

as a foreign feudal political and religious elite sought to

subjugate and exploit the Hungarians, relegating them to the slave-

like conditions of feudal serfdom, with Western Christianism as the

justifying ideology. The nearly ten centuries of Christian feudal

regime saw the continuous decline of the power and wealth of

Hungary, a trend which was interrupted only by a few relatively

brief periods of internal peace and prosperity which proved to be

the exception to the general political instability, social

fragmentation, impoverishment of the population, erosion of the

Hungarian language and culture, and subordination of Hungarian

policy-making to foreign interests which have characterized

Hungarian history since the imposition of that regime. The

assertion that the Hungarians had to integrate to the West because

otherwise the West would have annihilated them, and that therefore

the Hungarians owe their survival over the past 1000 years to their

adhesion to the West seems to be a misrepresentation of the facts.

Even after the imposition of Western Christianism, which was far

from having been unopposed, rapid and complete, the Hungarians were

repeatedly forced to repel armed aggression from the West - and

they were successful in doing so. The fact that Hungary was able to

remain a major power for several centuries was less due to its

Christianization and feudalization and more to the factors which

had made it a major power before its Westernization - and the same

would seem to apply to Hungary's cultural achievements for which

undue credit has been given to Western cultural influence.

Dombi Karoly

In article >, The Hypocrite Wally Keeler wrote:

> >maybe you should take care of your own hypocrisy and prejudices? 
> 
> Why, when I have you doing it for free, and without benefits.
> 
> >Come on Wally, give it a try. 
> 
> Not worth the effort.

You're right - why bother with learning when ignorance comes
instantaneously to you? 
 
> Coming from an expert of rude, I'll take your comment into consnideration.

Sassy!

Gabor

 () writes:

>I am trying to figure out the best translation of the word "contempt",
>especially as it's used in expressions such as "contempt of the Court",
>or Contempt of Congress (Parliament).  Somehow the word "megvete's" or
>"lene'ze's" don't sound right in such expressions.

"Engedetlense'g" or "do~nte's magtagada'sa" would fit better in this case.  
They do not reflect the full flavour of "comtempt", but I doubt that any 
Hungarian word or expression would.  There may be some historical precedent 
for "contempt of Parliament" in Hungary, but the term for it is most likely 
to be in Latin.  I cannot recall anything in Hungarian that would parallel 
"contempt of Court".

George Antony

Dear Friend,
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STEP 1:  Get 5 separate pieces of paper and write the following on
each sheet of paper...."PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST", and then
write your NAME AND ADDRESS.  Get five $1.00 bills and place ONE
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paper AND a $1.00 bill, stuffed inside of the paper. Make sure those
words that were stated above, are written on each paper. What you are
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the 5 envelopes, with the paper and $1.00 bill in each, to the
following 5 addresses:

1. D. Ellis, 8301 W. 92nd St., Overland Park, KS 662122. 

2. J. Krakowiak , 1112 W. Broadway #1, Anaheim, Ca  928053. 

3. J. Sides, Lamar Box 1, South Plains College, 1401 S. College
Ave.,Levelland, TX  79336

4. Areg Mkrian, 15 Alma Ave. Belmont, MA 02178-4404

5. A Karns, 4000 NW 53rd, Oklahoma City, OK, 73112


STEP 2:  Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move
the other 4 names up, (5 becoming 4, 4 becoming 3, etc.), and put
YOURNAME as number 5 on the list.  You can slightly alter this article
ifyou need to; editing what you need to edit.


STEP 3:  Post your amended article, (with your name at #5), to at
least 200 newsgroups, (There are close to 19,000 of them).  HOW TO DO
THIS:If you are using Netscape 3.0, do EXACTLY the following:
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2)  Leave the newsgroup box like it is.  CHANGE the subject box to
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youthink you need to make.  Keep most of it the same!!
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HAVE THE NAMES OF THOSE YOU WILL BE SENDING $1.00 TO. NEXT, GO TO THE
NEWSGROUPS AND PRESS "POST AN  ARTICLE".  A WINDOWWILL OPEN.  TYPE
YOUR HEADLINE IN THE SUBJECT AREA AND THEN CLICK INTHE LARGE WINDOW
BELOW. PRESS "CRTL" AND THEN "V", AND THE ARTICLE WILLBE PLACED IN THE
WINDOW. IF YOU WANT TO EDIT THE ARTICLE, DO SO, AND THEN HIGHLIGHT AND
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ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS REPEAT "CRTL" AND "V" AND PRESS POST.
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eac hone takesabout 30 seconds; once you get used to it).  REMEMBER
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by not sending the money to the people already on the list, you will
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sent the 5 $1.00 bills; people addedhim to their lists, and in 4 - 5
weeks, he had over $10,000.00. THIS IS THE FAIREST, AND MOST HONEST,
WAY I HAVE EVER SEEN TO SHARE THE WEALTH OF THE WORLD WITHOUT COSTING
ANYTHING BUT OUR TIME! GOOD LUCK, AND HAVE FUN!!!!

Please take a look at 

http://www.centraleurope.com

This site is a very useful source of information about these contries:

Poland, Czech republic, Hungary, Slovenia and Slovakia and we have also
introduced new section called Yugoslavia Today. The information consist of:

- Daily news and business
- Daily weather
- Country information, travel guides
- Sports news
- Links to other related sites sorted by country, subject etc.
- People
- Place your ad for business, job, travel etc.
- You can use the automatic search index to help you find exactly the
information you are looking for.

pavol wrote:
> 
> Erika.
> Jesus, I posted it a month ago. Have you read my postings
> since? If you had read it you would have understand what I
> said. I almost forgot about it after a month.
> Sorry, but I haven´t. I´m brandnew at reading this or any kind of 
newsgroup. For better understanding you could explain it once more what 
you meant or just give the reference of which messages refer to this 
subject so that I can read them too.
Thanks!

On 20 Feb 1997 14:29:07 GMT, T. Kocsis > wrote:
>
>Lehet, hogy van megfeleloje az angolszasz jogi fogalmaknak a
>magyar jogi szakirodalomban, de nem biztos, hogy letezik is
>ez a dolog a magyar jogon belul . A magyar jog meglehetosen
>elter az angolszasztol.

Igen, mint minden mas orszag joggyakorlata, amelyik a romai jogon
alapul.  Viszont az egy turhetetlen allapot, hogy buntetlenul lehessen
fricskazni az orszag torvenyhozo testuletevel. 

S ezzel ugy gondolom egyben az utolso cikkedet is olvastam ezen a forumon
Toled, ha csak nem keslelteted a pentekre kituzott hazautazasodat.  Ezt
a valaszt, a biztonsag kedveert privat levelben is megkuldom, mivel a
Usenet reven mar lehet, hogy nem latod meg.

Mint mar emlitettem, tavozasod nagy vesztesege lesz a magyar vonatkozasu
Internet forumoknak, amit szerencsere ellensulyoz az, hogy tudasodat es
eredeti gondolkozasodat ott gyumolcsozteted majd, ahol arra jelenleg
a legnagyobb szukseg van: Magyarorszagon.  Remelem egyszer meg a
politikara is raadod a fejed, bar azt hiszem Te inkabb az uzleti eletet
valasztod.  ... s ki hibaztathat azert.  Mindazonaltal az hiszem nem
csak magam neveben remelem, hogy azert valahogy megis sikerul vonalba
kerulnod hazulrol is a belathato idon belul, nemdeugyebar.  (Ez viszont
Toled szarmazik!)

Addig is ... jo utat es sikeres otthoni mukodest kivanok a magam es
velem egyetertok neveben,

Pannon Jozsi

Gustav Horvath wrote:

> You are right. Nobody want's Austria back.

Wants or not, it's like saying nobody wants Niagara
waters to fly back. Whether anyone wants or not, it's 
simply not an issue. 

Roman Kanala

Workshops  &  Tanchaz (Dance House) with Sandor & Erzsebet Timar !
Saturday, February 22nd, 1997

Schedule:=20

10:00a.m.- 12:30p.m.- public workshop w/ Sandor & Erzsebet Timar (Part I)=
=20
 2:00p.m.-  4:30p.m.- public workshop w/ S=E1ndor & Erzsebet Timar (Part II=
)=20
 7:30p.m.- 10:30p.m.- Tisza Ensemble's public Tanchaz

The Tanchaz starts at 7:30 p.m.  Dancing to live (local bands TANCHAZ! &
Maros Ensemble) and recorded music continues until 10:30 p.m.. The basic
steps of the dances will be demonstrated in special teaching circles while
each dance is going on. You may bring food or drink as an optional
donation to the snack table. Please bring dance footwear.=20

Directions:

From=20Interstate 495 (Washington Beltway) take Exit 25B, which is Route 1
(Baltimore Ave.) South toward College Park. Go 14 lights (including the
light at the ramp), and turn left onto Calvert Road. The studio is in the
first building on the right, behind Clean & Lean Fitness Center. =20

Please do not park on the street. Limited parking is available behind the
building, and there is a larger parking lot near the studio further up
(East) on Calvert Street on your right. From the College Park Metro,
please walk west on Calvert Street (towards Route 1)  and the studio is
the last building on your left before Route 1.

$ 8.00 for each workshop
$15.00 for both workshops=20
$ 6.00 for the tanchaz=20
Pay only $20.00 if you attend both workshops and the tanchaz !=20


=C1rpad F=E1bi=E1n Kov=E1cs

-- L=E1sd Tisza Egy=FCttes web oldal=E1t - Please visit the homepage of the
   Tisza Ensemble:
WWW                : http://www.glue.umd.edu/~hungaria/Tisza
WWW                : http://www.glue.umd.edu/~kovacs
personal email     : 

Istvan Lippai wrote:
> 
> Biszmillah,
>     Mikor fogja valaki azt mondani, hogy a kommunistak egy gyonyoru
> Budapest-i templomot nem romboltak le es annak helyere nem epitetek egy
> hatalmas szobrot Sztalin-nak?
> 
> Biszmilla vagy  Sam miert nem valaszolsz a kerdesemre:
> 
> "Mi tortent volna, ha egy csoport magyar nyilvanos helyen enekelte volna a
> Himnuszt a Rakosi idelye alatt?"
> 
> Ez a kerdes.
> 
> Az, hogy a jo idulatu hazafias tanarok mit tanitottak az egy masik kerdes.
> A mi teknikumi tanarjaink is belenk neveltek a hazaszeretet.  Ezert sokszor
> bajba is kerultek  Egy Ivan nevu mocskos kolok be is kopte oket.
> 
> Istvan

Bocsanat, ha felrertettelek:

Az elozokben semmi Sztalinszoborrol nem volt szo, ugyhogy nem tudom ez
miert jelentos. (Ha szo volt rola, en tul keson kapcsolodtam be.)

Mint irtam, eloadtuk (iskolakorussal) a himnuszt egy evzaro unnepely
folyaman, egy iskolaben, az en pesti altalanos iskolai palyafutasom
alatt (1950-56).
Ezzel a tennyel csak megcafoltam allitasodat, hogy "1945-56 kozott a
Himnuszt csak a templomban lehetett enekelni". Azt is mondtam, hogy
ezert en a te allitasodat nem tartom hazugsagnak, mert feltetelezem,
hogy csak rossz tajekozottsag eredmenye.

Ami a kerdesedet illeti:
"Mi tortent volna, ha egy csoport magyar nyilvanos helyen enekelte volna
a Himnuszt a Rakosi idelye alatt?"

Ha egy pesti iskolakorus nem egy "csoport magyar"; ha egy iskolai evzaro
unnepely, szulokkel, meghivottakkal, nem egy "nyilvanos hely", ha
eloadni a himnuszt egy korussal az nem "enekelni", ha 1950-56 nem
"Rakosi ideje" (ezen lehet talan a szorszalakat hasogatni, de azt is
tudom, hogy az eloadas 56 elott volt) akkor talan nem beszeljuk ugyanazt
a nyelvet. De ha egyetertesz velem e szavak jelenteseben, akkor
megvalaszoltam: nem "mi tortent volna, ha ..?" hanem "mi tortent akkor
amikor ..". Semmi. 

Ez egy egyszeru teny, semmi koze ahhoz, hogy milyen hazafiasnak erezzuk
magunkat, vagy hogy hogyan viszonyulunk Rakosihoz, a HUNGARY list-hez
(hala egnek, nem olvasom), stb., s hangsulyozom megint, hogy nem
rosszallom, ha mas mas elmenyeiro beszamol, talan csak megjegyzem, ha
nem lenne mar nyilvanvalo, hogy fenti allitasod tul altalanos.

Isten aldjon,

Sam

Gabor Barsai wrote:
> 
> In article >,  wrote:
> 
> > The pilfering invaders have "privatised" the country. The Kosice VSZ
> > steel
> > works have been sold to a circle of persons around the ruling HZDS in a
> > way that the Fund of National Property suffered a billion damage.
>                                                     ^^^^^^^
> 
> Not to be nit picking, but a billion what? USD or SKK or something else?
> 
> Gabor

In this case, it was a billion of Skk, which is about USD30m. 
Unfortunately, this is going on everyday. Nafta Gbely, an Skk3.5bn
value,
was attributed to an unknown company for a fraction of its value. The
newly
established company can realise an Skk2.7bn profit from this single
operation.
Tax exceptions and payment gifts are everyday business in Slovakia. 

In Hungary, a privatisation scandal provoked a political earthquake and 
for weeks, the newspapers are speaking about on the front page. In
Slovakia, 
people somehow got used to the pilferers and only notice here and there
if
the value exceeds a billion... Anyway, these numbers are so huge that
the
issue gets too abstract to worry about. 

Roman Kanala

I am a final year student within the Department of Electrical Engineering at t
he University of Edinburgh. As part of my final year studies I am required to p
erform a dissertaion.  The topic for which I have chosen to compare the restruc
turing of the Electricity Industries of Italy, Australia, Hungary with that of 
the UK.
 I am therefore particularly keen to find information on the industry within Hu
ngary, as much of the information I have sourced is not up to date.  I am inter
ested in learning at what stage of privatisation th eindustry is at, and how su
ccessful the restructuring has been.

 
Please, any information on this topic will be gratefully received .
Please either reply to this or e-mail me at 
.

Many thanks for the interest

Emma Bassett

On 13 Feb 1997 01:52:17 GMT, RK > wrote:
>  Ha valaki tud segiteni, nagyon erdekelne hogy hol lehet a Szabad-ot
>megtalani. Amiota a Forum valahogy ugyesen atlett nevezve a jol hangzo
>Szabad-ra nem vagyok kepes megtalalni. A Hix-ben meg utalast sem lattam
>ra annak ellenere hogy a nemletezo Forum meg mindig jelolve van. Ha a
>Forum eltuntetese volt a cel akkor idaig nagyon sikeres volt velem es
>gondolom sok mas olvasoval kapcsolatban is.

Nekem a magyarorszagiak sugtak meg, hogy a szegedi egyetem gopher
szerveren van, s eddig sikerult onnan minden szamot megszereznem.
Probald meg a WEB keresoddel a kovetkezo cimen:
gopher://gopher.jate.u-szeged.hu:11/hune/ujsagok/hix/szabad

Ha ez nem jon be, akkor probalkozz csak a ":" elotti cimmel, s onnan
navigalj az "ekezet nelkuli" fiokkal kezdve tovabb. 

Egyebkent az erdekes a dologban az, hogy az eldugottsaga ellenere rekord
nagysagu szamokban jelenik meg; mar 70 kb folott vannnak a szamok!
Lehet, hogy azert irnak olyan sokan, mivel erzik, hogy itt az utolso
alkalom?  -- vagy csak azertis???

Jo olvasast!

Pannon Jozsi

In article > ,
 writes:
>Igaz, hogyha saccolnom kell, szerintem is jo
>kadernek kellett lennie valakinek, akit 89 elott egy masik "barati
>orszag" katonai akademiajara kuldtek, de azert azt is figyelembe kell
>venni, hogy itt nem politikai tisztrol van szo, hanem hadmernokirol.

Erre meg egy lapattal ratennek. Emlekeim szerint (83-ban mentem
egyetemre -> BME) mar abban az idoben is depolitizalt volt a nem-
zetkozi felveteli.  Ugy remlik mechanikusan keretszamokat bizto-
sitottak az KGST 'testverorszagok' egymas szamara, ahova konnyeb-
ben be lehetett kerulni, mintha az ember magyarorszagi egyetemre
felvetelizett volna. A hatuluto az volt, hogy meg kellett tanulni
peldaul lengyelul, bulgarul hozza.  Megkockaztatom: egy politikailag
'gyanus elem'  nagyobb valoszinuseggel szamithatott felvetelre kul-
foldon.

Nem tudom pontosan megitelni mennyi parttamogatas kellett, hogy
katonanak alljon az ember, csak egy adalekot tennek meg hozza:
A  gimnaziumban ahol vegeztem, az ot osztalybol egy volt teljesen
civil osztaly (en ilyenbe jartam), a tobbibe ugynevezett "katko's",
katonai kollegista fiuk is jartak. Aki oda jelentkezett, azt automati-
kusan felvettek a gimibe (amibe egyebkent eleg nehez volt bekerul-
ni),  a kovetelmenyszint szamukra alacsonyabb volt, ingyen kolle-
giumba laktak, osztondijat is kaptak, viszont utana azonnal tiszhe-
lyettesnek, vagy katonai foiskolara kellett menni.

Ezt a szisztemat azert talaltak ki, mert a hivatasos allomany na-
gyon megfogyott, a szakma alulfizetettsege es leertekelodese mi-
att. Kizartnak tartom, hogy a felvetelinel politikai szempontokat
vettek volna figyelembe, mikor a letszamot alig tudtak feltolteni,
meg a gimnaziumi szinvonalat  messze meg nem uto diakok felve-
tele aran sem.

Tamas

Canada a model for Hungarian deficit-fighter
Report On Business, Globe & Mail, Feb 14/97
by Alan Freeman

	High unemployment, regional disparity, tax dodging, an aging 
population, rising social spending. The economic challenges are 
familiar to Canadians.
	In Hungary, you take the same problems and multiply them 
several times. In Canada, inflation is 2 per cent. In Hungary, it's 
more than 20. In Canada, the underground economy accounts for an 
estimated 5 per cent of gross domestic product. In Hungary, it's as 
much as 30 per cent.
	It may be hard for Canadians to believe but their country is 
developing an international reputation for tackling such difficult 
economic issues as a soaring deficit and ballooning debt, and bringing 
them under control.
	For Tibor Draskovics, Hungary's top finance ministry 
bureaucrat, a recent week-long visit to Canada was an opportunity to 
see how it's done. He spent several days in Ottawa with senior Finance 
Department officials and then was off to Toronto and Calgary to see how 
Ontario and Alberta were controlling spending.
	"I was first of all impressed with how seriously the Canadian 
government is thinking about the deficit," Mr Draskovics, an articulate 
42-year-old lawyer, said in an interview in the Old World atmosphere of 
his wood-panelled office at the finance ministry, housed in a 
turn-of-the- century former bank headquarters.
	A finance official involved in reforms to the banking and tax 
systems undertaken by the former Communist government in the 1980's. Mr 
Draskovics then spent three years in the private sector before being 
appointed secretary of state for finance in 1994.
	What he found was an out-of-control deficit and a rapidly 
developing current account crisis. In 1994, Hungary's deficit to GDP 
ratio was a stunning 8.5 per cent.
	In March of 1995, a desperate government acted. It introduced a 
drastic austerity package that slashed spending and devalued the 
currency.
	Explaining this policy to the Hungarian people, who had only 
just emerged from a regime where the state determined everything and 
owned everything, proved difficult.
	"People in Hungary didn't understand and most still don't 
understand what the deficit and the debt really mean. People think a 
government would be able to spend more if it's wanted. It's still very 
difficult to explain that it's similar to someone's personal budget," 
he said.
	Even though it included many former Communists, the Socialist 
government knew it had to act.
	"They understood that Hungary had a historical chance to join 
the mainstream of world development and the European community. If we 
weren't able to reduce our current account and government deficit, we 
would lose that chance," he said.
	The medicine worked. The deficit to GDP ratio declined to 3.2 
per cent last year, public sector spending fell to 48 per cent of GDP 
from 62 per cent and the ratings on Hungary's sovereign debt were 
raised to investment grade.
	But the social cost was high, with real salaries down by at 
least 15 per cent over the past two years.
	"It's a horrible loss especially after 15 years of stagnation 
but there's no civil unrest. Society didn't like it but accepted the 
necessity of those measures," he said.
	Mr Draskovics was especially impressed by Canada's inflation 
performance. Inflation is expected to drop to 18 per cent in Hungary 
this year, with a single digit goal by 2000.
	He also studied Canada's pension system, which combines a 
public scheme with private plans, something Mr Draskovics would like 
Hungary to emulate. The current Hungarian pay-as-you-go system is 
seriously underfunded.
	Mr Draskovics says the system has been too generous, with the 
retirement age for women at 55 and at 60 for men. As part of the 
government's changes, the retirement age is being raised to 62 for both 
sexes by 2003.
	Mr Draskovics is also impressed with Revenue Canada's moves to 
integrate the collection of taxes, pension and other social 
contributions along with customs duties.
	In Hungary, all those functions are still separate, with each 
government department using separate databases and jealously protecting 
its information.

In article >, 
 says...
>
>Dombi Karoly irja
>
>"The European Middle Ages are referred to as the dark ages. This term
>refers
>to the general cultural state of Europe after the fall of the Roman
>empire:
>decaying infrastructure and economy, political and legal anarchy, poor
>living
>standard of the general population (lack of adequate shelter, food,
>clothing,
>health, hygene, education and personal security). "
>
>A "Sotet Kozepkor" elnevezest az u.n. Felvilagosodas hozta be annak a
>harcnak az eszkozekent amelyik a realiakon (foldtulajdon) alapulo 
hatalmat
>az
>ingotoke hatalmaval kivanta felvaltani. Ketsegkivul, a Kozepkor nem volt
>technikai kultura, de mint szellemi, filozofiai, muveszeti kultura 
aligha
>nevezheto
>sotetnek. Ami pedig az eletszinvonalat illeti, a jobbagy a viragzo
>kozepkorban
>egy telek (kb 40 hold) foldet kapott megmuvelesre, es az abbol befolyo
>ertek 80
>szazaleka az ove maradt. A 20 % (dezsma es a maradek kilencede) valamint
>heti egy napi robot jelentette az adot. Ma a U.S.-ben a jovedelem 43%-a,
>Europaban a jovedelem kozel 50%-a adora megy, es senki nem kap az 
allamtol
>ingyen foldberletet, vagy onallo meglhetest biztosito vallakozast amikor
>meghazasodik.
>
>Ha olyan jo dolguk volt a jobbagyoknak, akkor mi okozta a Dozsa fele 
felkelest?

Agnes

Hi : Pelayo has uploaded the four goals that Spain scored against Malta on 
Wednesday. You can download those and many more goals :

http://www.isfa.com/server/videos/pelayo/

----

CREATE YOUR OWN SOCCER NEWSGROUP AT ISFA :

You can now apply for a Newsgroup of your club to be created at ISFA. This 
Newsgroup will be accessible through the Web at ISFA's Web Site at :

http://www.isfa.com/newsgroups/

or by Newsreader at the following News Server :

news.isfa.com (or at 207.16.12.35 if the name does not get resolved)

Just send a mail to :



and type in the body of the message :

send usenet.txt

to recieve an application and instructions.

----

LIVE COMS AT ISFANET :

On Wednesday we had the very first Live Coms at ISFAnet IRC Soccer Server. We 
had two games in IRC #futbol_mundial : Colombia (0-1) Argentina and Paraguay 
(2-1) Peru. They were highly successful Live Coms with over 30 spectators per 
game, even though apparently some did not know how to find our new IRC Server 
(irc.isfa.com, Port 6667). 

We had a large number of people that found us by the Web Chat Page 
(http://www.isfa.com:8080), which has an new and improved interface that shows 
you all the Registered Channel on the left hand side. Nifty...

We have configured the Server in such a way that only Registered Channels can 
be accessed so as to stop any warez or sex channels from plaguing our 
Soccer-only Server. Registration will be available to anyone who wants to 
start, or move their existing Soccer Channel to ISFAnet, as from Saturday Feb 
15.

Current Channels at ISFAnet :

#arsenal
#futbol_mundial
#futebol
#soccer
#tribuna
#isfanet

Please check : http://www.isfa.com/isfanet.html

----

Cheers and see you at ISFAnet !

-- 
****************************
questra
ISFA Administrator
Winning is a state of mind.
http://www.isfa.com/
****************************

Kedves Peter!
    Dehogy haragszok.  Ezen a listan Ti nem gyulolettel tamadtok mint a
HUNGARY listan.  Ahany magyar annyi velemeny.  Remelem, Te se haragszol
amiert nem hiszek el mindent amit a torteneszek mondanak, es azert se mert
eggyelore tegezlek.  A magyar irasom meg gyenge ahhoz, hogy magazzak,
onozzek, stb.  Te igyekszek.
    Remelem nem haragszol, de en ugy tanultam, hogy a torteneszek a hatalom
szolgai, es tobbnyire azt irjak amit a hatalom megfizet.  Azert van, hogy
hazank tortenete most teljessen el van torzitva.  El fog tartani egy ideig
amig magyar erzesu tisztesseges emberek tortnelmi munkai fognak tudni
vetelkedni a kommunistak berelt kurvainak a hazugsagaival.
    Sajnos a torok tortenelem a nyugaton is a szellemi kurvak munkajanak az
eredmenye.  Legtobb nyugati nem foglalkozik a torok tortenelemmel.  A torok
kormany hatalmas osszgeket kolt amerikaban arra, hogy a torokok tortenelmet
a javukra torzitsa.  Stanford es Georgetown csak a ket legvisszataszitobb
peldaja a 'tudomanyos' kutatas eltorzitasanak.  A tortenelmi irataikat csak
szimpatikus torteneszeknek engedik megnezni, es azokat meg is fizetik.
    A tortenelemrol azt tudok amit 60-ev alatt lattam es tapasztaltam, es
amit olyan konyvekben olvastam amiket rendszer nelkul valasztottam.  Amit a
torokokrol gyilkoskodasarol tudok az en idomben (Murder of Armenians,
Kurds, Greeks, Serbs.), annak alapjan konnyebben el hiszem azokat a
torteneszeket akik ellenuk beszelnek mint akik melletuk.
> (PS - I am a trained historian with two graduate degrees.)
    Buszke vagyok rad, mert buszke vagyok minden olyan honfitarsamra aki
megalta a helyet az idegen vilagban.  Mint tanult ember es tortenesz, azt
is el varnam toled, hogy kerdezdd meg ki irta azt a szoveget amit a listara
tettem es talan meg a tobbi reszet is kerhetted volna.  Ezt szerbek irtak,
es elgondolkoztam azon, hogy ha a torokok nem uldoztek es gyilkoltak volna
oket 500-evig, talan ma a szerbek nekunk magyaroknak jobb szomszedjaink
lennenek.  600,000 honfitarsunk el a szerbek kozott.  Engem erdekel az o
sorsuk.
    A szakmamban, ha mondok valamit ami nem igaz, azt konnyen (ha megvan a
tudasod) meg tudod cafolni.  Matematika es fizika tudomanya nem megbocsato.
 A tortenelem az mas, vannak olyanok akik egy bizonyos allaspontot akarnak
elorehalasztani.  Tudom, hogy Te nem azok koze tartozol.  Ugyanakkor nem
vagyok hajlando elfogadni 'aheringer' gyengen burkolt allaspontjat, hogy
amiert a torok hoditok jok voltak az o oseikhez, a 150-eves torok hatalom
jo volt a magyaroknak.  O es a tarsai a HUNGARY listan hazudozonak hivtak
amiert azt mondtam, hogy 1945-1956 alatt a Himnuszt csak a templomban
lehetett enekelni.
   Mondd meg tortenesz baratom, mi tortent volna, ha egy csoport magyar
nyilvanos helyen enekelte volna a Himnuszt a Rakosi idelye alatt?
Udv: Istvan