In article >, Jorma Kyppo
> wrote:

> That was the backgrounds, and now my very short story:
> So I visited in Slovakia last year, and was walking alone in the
> night (as I sometimes like to do) in one Slovakian town in
> some small dark street.
> When I was crossing the street, I saw a car coming in fast speed
> and wasn't sure if I should wait or continue my walking. After 1
> second hazitating I decided to continue and the car passed me quite
> near.
> The result was that car did stop and I saw it was filled by six
> gypsies. The driver opened the window and shouted angrily in
> Slovak: "What are you doing, are you some Hungarian or what!!?"
> I was thinking to answer, that no, just a cousin, but then thought
> that better not. 
> 
> I found the situation very absurd, a Slovakian gypsy blames a Finn,
> who understands Slovak, claiming rasistically, that he's kind of
> Hungarian...
> I didn't know if I should laugh or cry, but it was a good lesson.
> racism is very relative matter.
> 
> Jorma Kyppo
> Laukaa
> Finland
> 
> 

This has a little to do with racism. The expression "to talk like a
Hungarian" (rozpravas jak Madar) is a slang expression for talking
nonsense. So don't take that "Co si Madar, ci co" too personally.

TD

-- 
Signature under construction...

Here's the long sought-after address of the Soros Foundation, at least
according to my WWW browser:
Soros Foundation-Hungary
H-1525 Budapest, POB 34
Budapest, Hungary H-1014
tel:  (36 1) 202 6211
fax:  (36 1) 175 7767
e-mail:  
Mr. Miklos Vasarhelyi, President of the Board of Directors
Ms. Eva Bakonyi, Executive Director

In the past, I've found some of their Web info to be outdated, but it's worth
a try.

--Shannon Morris

MUZSIKAS featuring MARTA SEBESTYEN ITINERARY

                                                                 11/29/1995

   DATES                 CITY             ST/COUNTRY  VENUE
   03/15/1996            NEW YORK         NY          SYMPHONY SPACE
   03/16/1996            CHICAGO          IL          OLD TOWN SCHOOL OF FOLK
                                                      MUSIC
   03/19/1996            BERKELEY         CA          FREIGHT & SALVAGE
   03/22/1996            SANTA MONICA     CA          McCABE'S GUITAR SHOP
   03/23/1996            PITTSBURGH       PA          CARNEGIE LECTURE HALL
   03/24/1996            VIENNA           VA          THE BARNS AT WOLFTRAP
   03/27/1996            BLOOMINGTON      IN          JOHN WALDRON ARTS 
                                                      CENTER
   03/28/1996            MINNEAPOLIS      MN          CEDAR CULTURAL CENTRE
   03/29/1996            LOUISVILLE       KY          KENTUCKY CENTER FOR THE
                                                      ARTS
   03/30/1996            SOMERVILLE       MA          SOMERVILLE THEATER

                       ** BA: CONCERTED EFFORTS, INC. **

                             RC:  HANNIBAL/RYKODISC

Sorry about all the repetitions! The server at my end was too busy 
or down, so I made several attempts to post none of which were indicated 
as going through...so I emailed yet another! Oh dear....I'm having a bad
time.....

George

**** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK ***
*
** Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address:  *
*
 * NW London Computer Club * Commodore=64 stuff wanted: tell me what you have *
 * Interested in secondhand chess books? Ask for my list * Collections bought *

eur.co writes:

>Yes I do.You are absolutely correct.It was a jew however,who 
>posted the "being ashamed of Hungarian" smokescreen,and then 
>called everyone else a semite.Be on your guard!
>All the best
>
>A fellow Hungarian

   Who is correct ? In what ?

  Noone knows about the origin of the guy who wrote to be
ashamed to be Hungarian. There was no hint, no information,
no name, no mentioning of origin what so ever. Smokescreen ?
He was writing quite clearly, even if with bad grammar, he
was a son to some Hungarians, born in Canada.
He never called anyone anything after that letter, he never
showed up more. And he certainly did not call anyone to
be a "semite". You've been called "szemet" of an otherone,
because of your ANTISEMITIC message. Do you really know
what you are talking about ? I seriously doubt it.
There isn't one sentence, one word right in this message.
Even the "Kitartas !" salute you translate wrongly.

Noone can stop such messages, how stupid or disgasting
they might be. But is there still anybody, who does not
understand, whom the "ashamed guy" was so ashamed of ?
Will this people ever pop up ? Will this never end ?
And you, who never react on these, do you really beleive,
that it goes away, if you look the other way ?

"Przebywajac w Szwecji slyszalem od Szwedow ze "Slav" pochodzi od
skandynawskiego slowa "slav" - niewolnik.  Nazwa ta podobno zostala nadana
przez Vikingow przywozacych niewolnikow z wojen na obszarach zamieszkalych
przez Slowian.  Czy kto prawda?"

Nie. Kolejnosc jest inna. Wedlug obowiazujacych w gramatyce historycznej
wykladni  "slowianie" pochodza od indoeropejskiej nazwy "kloaka", co mialo
znaczyc - teren zalesiony, bagnisty (nie mylic z dzisiejszym rozumieniem
greckim i polskim).
Wedlug tej samej teorii wyraz "slowo" pochodzi od "kleos" (to samo
znaczenie).
Prosze zwrocic uwage na charakterystyczne przeksztalcenia jezykowe.

"Slave" rzeczywiscie pochodzi od slowa "Slowianie" (nie odwrotnie!).
Tereny Europy Srodkowej byly swego czasu znaczacym "exporterem" jencow
wojennych, zdobytych w walkach miedzyplemiennych. Sam Ibrahim ibn Jakub,
znany poniekad z historii Polski Mieszka I, byl zydowskim handlarzem
zywego towaru, przerzucanego na tereny dzisiejszej Hiszpanii i Maroka
(Hiszpanii wtedy oczywiscie arabskiej).

Jak dlugo trwal ten proceder? Nie ma znaczacych i obowiazujacych
historycznie wyjasnien. Prawdopodobniej zaczal sie od naruszenia przez
wedrowki ludow lokalizacyjnego dla Slowian status quo, skonczyl sie przy
zakonczeniu procesu formowania sie panstowosci narodow slowianskich. Dla
przypomnienia - jeszcze w VIII wieku n.e. roznice jezykowe wsrod narodow
slowianskich nie byly az tak duze. Pismo Swiete Cyryla i Metodego
(staro-cerkiewno-slowianski: historycznie jeden z dialektow
slowianszczyzny poludniowej) bylo rozumiane na calym obszarze od
slowianskiej Wenecji, takowego Wiednia i prawdopodobnie w panstwie Wislan,
obejmujacym dzisiejszy Krakow. Podstawowe roznicowanie jezykow
slowianskich zaczelo sie w zasadzie od wieku IX, chociaz i wtedy
odmiennosci byly jeszcze - rozumujac dzisiejszymi kategoriami -
niewielkie. Dla przykladu - wczesny polski jezyk "zapisany" roi sie wrecz
od nalecialosci czeskich, co po prostu oznacza, ze odleglosci jezykowe
byly za male, by tworzyc bariery.

Wracajac do Wikingow - chlopcy z bliskiej polnocy, najezdzajacy tereny
pomorskie, przez wiele lat trzymajacy na tych terenach grody, uwiklani
byli przede wszystkim w konflikty i we wspolprace z Wieletami, slowianskim
plemieniem z okolic dzisiejszego Wolina i Szczecinskiego. (To zreszta
potrzeba pokonania Wieletow byla decydujaca przeslanka przyjecia Chrztu
przez Mieszka I. Chodzilo o zapobiezenie aliansom wielecko-niemieckim -
nie mozna atakowac Polakow w imie "chrystianizacji". Bezposrednim efektem
chrztu bylo nader skore zlamanie potegi wieleckiej w najblizszych od
chrztu latach - potegi juz nie wspomaganej oficjalnie przez Niemcow z
pogranicza).

Uwiklanie Wikingow w sprawy wieleckie moglo dac efekt posrednictwa w
handlu jencami wojennymi, zdobytymi przez Wieletow, na przyklad w walkach
z Polanami. Stad przejecie nazwy - dosyc popularnej wsrod obcych, skoro
jest ona notowana w wielu jezykach europejskich. Nazwa ta tworzy do tej
pory podswiadome przekonanie o niskiej wartosci Slowianszczyzny.

Pozdrowienia

Lech

Dan Pop  > wrote:
>
>Congratulations Joe.  You gave the full measure of your intellect and sense
>of humour here.  Vulis and Dragon Fly must be proud of you.
>Keep the good work going.

Thanks, Dan!  I thought you'd like that.
You know, it was such a nice high serve and I've been aching for a good
tennis ever since I've got some low blows from Hermes, Adrian & Co.
This one was just too good to pass. ;-)

BTW, who is Vulis? 
I only recall Dragon Fly and let's face it, Dan: you can't possibly
remember his posts. 

Panonescu

Jarmo Ryyti ) wrote:
> The Hungarians have a hard time in Slovakia.
> The Finns and Saamis in Sweden.

If Finnish language would have same rights in Sweden like
Hungarian language has in Slovakia it would be a paradise
compared with the present situation.

Jorma Kypp|
Laukaa
Finland


btw: how many slovak schools there are anyway in Hungary?

In article >,  (Liviu Iord
ache) says:
>
 (George Szaszvari) wrote:
>
>>Huns were Turkic and the Magyars were Ob-Ugrian from the Urals (the word 
>>Hungarian being an unfortunate corruption of Ugrian, which now leads many
>>simpletons to equate Hun with Magyar.)
>
>Actually, the name-forms "Ungari" and "Hungari" are derived not from
>the original name of the Uralic (Finno-Ugric) Megyers, but from the
>alternate name of the Bulgarians (i.e., Onogurs). 

It's been a very long time since I read up Finno-Ugrian origins and some
of the details in my memory are evidently inaccurate! Unfortunately, I don't
have the time or occasion to check out much of this stuff now (life can be a 
bitch!) but the postings to this ng seem enthusiastic enough to correct any 
lapses. Keep up the good work! 

George

**** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK ***
*
** Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address:  *
*
 * NW London Computer Club * Commodore=64 stuff wanted: tell me what you have *
 * Interested in secondhand chess books? Ask for my list * Collections bought *

In article >  (George Szaszvari)
 writes:
>From:  (George Szaszvari)
>Subject: Re: Atilla the Fun
>Date: 29 Nov 1995 20:22:37 GMT

>In article >,  (Wally Keeler) 
says:
>>
>>Mark Cristian wrote:
>>|That is certain, but makes sense as far as verbal aggression goes! Think
>>|of the 'HUN' that keeps on tormenting us in the dawn of the twenty first
>>|century!
>>
>>As one of those poor souls and simpletons George is referring to, it is my
>>pleasure to become less of a simpleton because of this Hunyar thread. A FAQ
>>would be enlightening. The education I'm getting will be useful for the
>>future. This is enrichment! Nevertheless, as befitting the new millenium,
>>Atilla the Pun and his sister, Flotilla the Fun, will continue to cruise
>>the Danube tormenting the local stiffbacks and toxic effluvium. 

>Wrong river...try The Thames (you know, in the land of America's greatest
>ally...) Quoting stuff about another's verbal aggression is a bit rich 
>coming from someone who recently described someone else as a *Romanian 
>slime ball*.....anyway, I've been learning a lot more about aggressive
>postings in the Yugo/Croatia/Bosnia ngs, which isn't so funny....

>Regards,

>George

>**** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK **
**
>** Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address:  
**
> * NW London Computer Club * Commodore=64 stuff wanted: tell me what you have 
*
> * Interested in secondhand chess books? Ask for my list * Collections bought 
*

Attila spells with two 't'`s, OK?

Well my thoughts on this are along the lines that Germans are not very 
well people. In that if you break down the word you get with an overlap 
Germ and man, so does this mean that Germans are all sick people.

 (Tomas Drgon) wrote:

>This has a little to do with racism. The expression "to talk like a
>Hungarian" (rozpravas jak Madar) is a slang expression for talking
>nonsense. 

But Tommy, that is EXACTLY what racism IS !!

It just shows how deeply these racial/national prejudices run.
Unfortunately, it is not limited to Slovak, it runs in just about in
every language, every nation.

In Czech, there is an expression "Turecke hospodarstvi" (Turkish
economy) to signify mindless chaos.  I remember an official protest
from the Republic of Turkey to Czechoslovakia in the 1960s when one of
the CS Ministers used it in his speech.  Quite justifiable complaint,
in my view.

Phrases like that even though may seem harmless to the speaker (oh, we
don't mean anything by that, it's just a figure of speech) do instil
ideas in the audience of contempt or ridicule of the nationality or
group of the people mentioned, without any justification in fact.

I am quite sure that there would be a lot of people complaining if I
started telling somebody here that he is as stupid as a Slovak and
tried to excuse it by saying "oh, it's just a slang expression ..., no
harm intended..."



Karl Pollak               FidoNet 1:153/965
Richmond, B.C.            Canadian Infomaticon BBS

In article >,  (ALazer) writes:
|> Przebywajac w Szwecji slyszalem od Szwedow ze "Slav" pochodzi od
|> skandynawskiego slowa "slav" - niewolnik.  Nazwa ta podobno zostala nadana
|> przez Vikingow przywozacych niewolnikow z wojen na obszarach zamieszkalych
|> przez Slowian.  Czy kto prawda?

A quick translation: The author asks if it's true that the word 'Slav'
is derived from the skandinavian word 'slav' (=slave). The name was
allegedly given by the Vikings who took slaves, as war booty, in the
regions inhabited by Slavs.

My response: No, it's the other way round. The anglosaxon word 'slave',
'sklave' or whatever, is derived from the slavic word Slav, the name
the Slavs gave themselves. Apparently the Vikings did invade lands
inhabited by the Slavs and took many prisoners. In time, the word came
to signify, in the Germanic lands, any enslaved person.
Nice guys those Germans. So glad they are reformed now...

Wojtek
-- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wojciech R. Rypniewski		tel: +49-40-89902142
EMBL c/o DESY			fax: +49-40-89902149
Notkestrasse 85			E-mail: 
D-22603 Hamburg, Germany	WWW: http://www.embl-hamburg.de/~Wojtek/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Andras Olah > wrote:
>|> Not the right answer, but it may help.  What about taking a look at
>|> `http://www.soros.org/' ?  Although I don't know if your friend has
>|> WWW access.
>
>OK. I dug a bit further and here's what I've found at the address:
>
>gopher://gopher.soros.org:70/00/Foundations/Hungary/Cont_Affil/CEU-Budapest

Thanks, Andras.  I'll pass on the info.  Maybe it will do.

Regards,
Joe

In article >,  (Wally Keeler) s
ays:
>
>Mark Cristian wrote:
>|That is certain, but makes sense as far as verbal aggression goes! Think
>|of the 'HUN' that keeps on tormenting us in the dawn of the twenty first
>|century!
>
>As one of those poor souls and simpletons George is referring to, it is my
>pleasure to become less of a simpleton because of this Hunyar thread. A FAQ
>would be enlightening. The education I'm getting will be useful for the
>future. This is enrichment! Nevertheless, as befitting the new millenium,
>Atilla the Pun and his sister, Flotilla the Fun, will continue to cruise
>the Danube tormenting the local stiffbacks and toxic effluvium. 

Wrong river...try The Thames (you know, in the land of America's greatest
ally...) Quoting stuff about another's verbal aggression is a bit rich 
coming from someone who recently described someone else as a *Romanian 
slime ball*.....anyway, I've been learning a lot more about aggressive
postings in the Yugo/Croatia/Bosnia ngs, which isn't so funny....

Regards,

George

**** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK ***
*
** Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address:  *
*
 * NW London Computer Club * Commodore=64 stuff wanted: tell me what you have *
 * Interested in secondhand chess books? Ask for my list * Collections bought *

Eugene  *fraer* > wrote:
>
>  (Lech M) wrote:
> 
> <Some good discussion about Slavs in Polish>
> 
> I don't know Polish, and based my understanding on knowledge of 
> Ukrainian.
> 
> As far as I understand in this article the author derives the 
> Anglo-German word "slave" from "slav", because Slavs were main
> source of slaves for neighboring nations. 

Correct! Also, the Anglo-German word is derived from Latin and
Greek. Latin Sclavus stands for Slav and slave.

> One of the proofs also was that one well-known medieval person 
> was a Jewish slave trader who supplied Slavic slaves to the 
> Arabic Spain. 

Don't tell it to Luis Farrakhan :)

Andre K.

> 
> 
> 
> PS Otlichnyj material dlja Purebred-Sovka.
> 
> DISCLAIMER: Written above expresses opinions of the fraer only, 
> and even other fraers would not agree with this.
> 
>

Jorma Kyppo  > wrote:

>The result was that car did stop and I saw it was filled by six
>gypsies. The driver opened the window and shouted angrily in
>Slovak: "What are you doing, are you some Hungarian or what!!?"
>I was thinking to answer, that no, just a cousin, but then thought
>that better not. 

And Slovaks keep saying that most of the Gypsies in Slovakia are
Hungarian Gypsies, making up much of the half million of Hungarians
there.  What's wrong with this picture? 

Joe Pannon

In article >,  (Liviu Iord
ache) says:
>
 (George Szaszvari) wrote:
>
>>Huns were Turkic and the Magyars were Ob-Ugrian from the Urals (the word 
>>Hungarian being an unfortunate corruption of Ugrian, which now leads many
>>simpletons to equate Hun with Magyar.)
>
>Actually, the name-forms "Ungari" and "Hungari" are derived not from
>the original name of the Uralic (Finno-Ugric) Megyers, but from the
>alternate name of the Bulgarians (i.e., Onogurs). 

It has been a very long time since I read up the subject of Finno-Ugrian 
origins so I can't remember the exact details; do I recall correctly that 
this (corruption of Onogur) is the most plausible *theory* rather than 
concrete evidence? (I gave my favourite book by Cushing to a Welshman 
who has since moved to France.) Unfortunately, I don't have the time or
occasion to check all this stuff out these days (life can be a bitch)
but it looks like the postings here are sufficiently enthusiastic to 
correct any lapses. Keep up the good work!

George

**** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK ***
*
** Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address:  *
*
 * NW London Computer Club * Commodore=64 stuff wanted: tell me what you have *
 * Interested in secondhand chess books? Ask for my list * Collections bought *

In article >
 (Lubomyr Onyshkevych) writes:

> The tribe 
> inhabiting present Ukrainian Galicia were called "Bili Khorvaty" - White 
> Croatians. And so forth.

As far as I know, the White Croats mainly inhabited Subcarpathia -
present-day east Slovakia, northeast Hungary, and Transcarpathia
(Zakarpats'ka Oblast' of Ukraine) - the only place they were in Galicia
was in the Lemko Region, today in southeast Poland.  (These facts
supporting the idea of a common origin for all Carpatho-Rusyns, the
While Croats later mixing with Vlachs and Rus' from the east...)

R. Custer

Subject: Re: Magyars' Hun-ancestry !? (was Re: Joe & Quebec .....)
On 24 Nov 1995, George Szaszvari wrote:
>Correct. It might actually be worth regularly posting a FAQ, explaining to 
>all the poor souls who frequently betray their ignorance by believing that 
>Huns and Magyars are one and the same thing. 
>Hungarian being an unfortunate corruption of Ugrian, which now leads many
>simpletons to equate Hun with Magyar.)

Mark Cristian wrote:
|That is certain, but makes sense as far as verbal aggression goes! Think
|of the 'HUN' that keeps on tormenting us in the dawn of the twenty first
|century!

As one of those poor souls and simpletons George is referring to, it is my
pleasure to become less of a simpleton because of this Hunyar thread. A FAQ
would be enlightening. The education I'm getting will be useful for the
future. This is enrichment! Nevertheless, as befitting the new millenium,
Atilla the Pun and his sister, Flotilla the Fun, will continue to cruise
the Danube tormenting the local stiffbacks and toxic effluvium. 


-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Subject: Vomitator -- The Judgement Day

Razvan Ghica > wrote:
>Gabi Savomitescu keeps threatening me and Matei with a libel suit because
>we dare to mock him, emphasizing his lack of wit and education.

He sounds like some idiot Canadian politicians I know of.

>He seemsto be particularly annoyed by the fact that we point out his lack
>of command of grammar and ortography rules which makes him average about
>two errors per sentence. 

This would reflect on his ability to communicate with the people. This
would also reflect on his capabilities to think and make descisions. He
sounds like a very sloppy person. Again, he sounds like some idiot
Canadian politicians I know of.

>He is also annoyed by my political opinions since he feels that being a
>scientist and not a professional politician like him I have no authority
>in the field. Duh!

I would presume that your command of Romanian is superior to your command
of English. Since I regard your command of English as better than 95% of
the English Canadian population, then double-Duh! to politician Vomitor.
Obviously the dickhead thinks no one but HIMself has any authority -- so
we know how he regards all of the constituents in his riding.

>I have to say that I have not seen such a moronic and pathetic attitude
>in my life, especially disappointing when coming from a politician. 

They're all alike when they have money and power in their hands. 

>It is my opinion, and he won't threaten me out of it, that he is a
>fucking idiot

He has to fuck idiots. Anyone with a gram of intelligence would let him
near him.

>and his party is a joke since it has such a member, 

Have they examined his member? Is it as flacid as his intelligence?
I've always been partial to party jokes. Does he belong to the Cocktail
Party?

>apparently quite high ranking too. 

A good deoderant will make him less rank.

>I will make sure that from now on I will constantly mock him and flame
>his sorry butt until he will realize that intimidation is not such an
>effective weapon after all 

Even if he does realize it, flame him for the fun of it. If you don't, I
will, and I'll make sure his name is vomit all over the world -- indeed, I
will post this item in soc.culture.canada and just so the neighbours will
know, I'll post it in soc.culture.magyar. His pants should be pulled down
internationally.


>and he will get the hell out of the Internet altogether or come to terms
>with reality: it is a free world and I can express any opinion I feel
>like about whomever I wish. 

right on bro'

>Of course, I will take the time to mail his party superiors about what a
>liability they got and what de-services he does for them. Maybe they will
>cut the buffoon loose. 

I like this game. Can I play with you? Good politics (poly tricks) is
about building alliances.

>If you want to assist me and Matei and take a shot at him feel free, his
>emotional and illiterate responses will be an endless source of
>entertainment. 

Our entertainment will be his enterpainment.

>Take care,
>DR Ghica

I swear to speak poetic
wholly poetic
and nothing but poetic
so help me Blake.

PS. Often I just speak prose to fit in with the locals.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

I specialise in reinventing Italian/French ads in English.

I’m now in the process of setting up an international network of
freelance copywriters with similar skills so we can pool our resources
and offer a complete service.

We’ll need copywriters (with in-house history) who have the foreign
culture/language experience to rewrite copy across languages to
achieve the original advertising brief (above & below the line) in
their mother tongue, often retaining the original artwork.

Journalists and speech-writers also required.

Please email brief CV/resume with details of rates and equipment etc.
to me at above address. Alternatively send with same plus stats of
concept and copy work to:

91 Sandgate Road
Fiveways
Brighton BN1 6JP

cheers

Michael Benis

In article >,
Mathias Muench-Dalstein  <matze> wrote:
>>ace226 ) wrote:
>>: Can anyone tell me what Germany and Deutschland mean? I was wondering becau
>>: it's translated between languages (Allemande (sp?) in french). Is there a 
>>: literal translation or perhaps there's a latin root to the word?
>
>4. Can anybody explain me why Russians call us "nemetskyi", 
>Bulgarians "nemski" (or similar) and even
>Hungarians (a non-slavic people) "ne'met"?

	That is because the Germans have such bad accents, really!  You see,
the word derives from the word for a person who can not speak, that is
a mute person.  The slavic people, and the Hungarians, considered the
Germans the ones who couldn't speak their language, they were the
non-understandable ones, the ones who couldn't talk.  So that is where
the names comes from.

	Mark Burge

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Burge                                       
Institute of Systems Science
Johannes Kepler University                       Tel: +43 732 2468 9824
A-4040 Linz, Austria                             Fax: +43 732 2468 893
------------- http://www.cast.uni-linz.ac.at/st/staff/burge/ --------------

Eugene  *fraer* > wrote:

 (Lech M) wrote:

><Some good discussion about Slavs in Polish>

>I don't know Polish, and based my understanding on knowledge of 
>Ukrainian.

>As far as I understand in this article the author derives the 
>Anglo-German word "slave" from "slav", because Slavs were main
>source of slaves for neighboring nations. 
>One of the proofs also was that one well-known medieval person 
>was a Jewish slave trader who supplied Slavic slaves to the 
>Arabic Spain. 

Yes this is correct!!

>PS Otlichnyj material dlja Purebred-Sovka.

>DISCLAIMER: Written above expresses opinions of the fraer only, 
>and even other fraers would not agree with this.

(poprawione)

alazer wrote:
> Przebywajac w Szwecji slyszalem od Szwedow ze "Slav" pochodzi od
> skandynawskiego slowa "slav" - niewolnik.  Nazwa ta podobno zostala nadana
> przez Vikingow przywozacych niewolnikow z wojen na obszarach zamieszkalych
> przez Slowian.  Czy kto prawda?

Jest dokladnie na odwrot, to jest pierwotnie byla nazwa wlasna Slowian
ktora w staroslowianskim musiala brzmiec mniej wiecej "Slovene".

Za czasow rzymskich wielu niewolnikow przywozono z terenow slowianskich, tak
ze nazwa jaka okreslal sie ten lud, zwany tez przez Rzymian Veneti
(moze to nazwa jakiegos spokrewnionego plemienia, to jest dzis niejasne)
stala sie synonimem niewolnika - po lacinie sclavus, po grecku sklabos
i stad w nowszych jezykach: ang slave, wloskie schiavo (i od tego 
dialektalne wloskie ciao, rozpowszechnione jako pozegnanie, tak jak 
slowko serwus oznaczajace sluge, jak polskie wyrazenie "sluga unizony").

Jak mowili na niewolnikow Wikingowie, tego nie wiem, ale na pewno okreslenie
sclavus=niewolnik jest duzo starsze niz Wikingowie, siega pierwszych stuleci 
naszej ery.

To co napisalem powyzej jest stosunkowo pewne, ciekawsza sprawa jest
to, dlaczego wlasciwie Slowianie nazywaja sie Slowianie! Interpretacja 
wywodzaca ich od "slowa" jako synonimu zrozumialej mowy jest tylko
domyslem, niewykluczone tez (jak pisal np. Z.Stieber w Gramatyce 
Porownawczej Jezykow Slowianskich) ze pochodzi od jakiejs nazwy 
geograficznej (rzeka, jezioro?) podobnej do "slowo" - koncowka -ianie
jest dla takich konstrukcji typowa.

Lukasz Bielecki

alazer wrote:
> Przebywajac w Szwecji slyszalem od Szwedow ze "Slav" pochodzi od
> skandynawskiego slowa "slav" - niewolnik.  Nazwa ta podobno zostala nadana
> przez Vikingow przywozacych niewolnikow z wojen na obszarach zamieszkalych
> przez Slowian.  Czy kto prawda?

Jest dokladnie na odwrot, to jest pierwotnie byla nazwa wlasna Slowian
ktora w staroslowianskim musiala brzmiec mniej wiecej "Slovene".

Za czasow rzymskich wielu niewolnikow przywozono z terenow slowianskich, tak
ze nazwa jaka okreslal sie ten lud, zwany tez przez Rzymian Venedi
(moze to nazwa jakiegos spokrewnionego plemienia, to jest dzis niejasne)
stala sie synonimem niewolnika - po lacinie sclavus, po grecku sklabos
i stad w nowszych jezykach: ang slave, wloskie schiavo (i od tego 
dialektalne wloskie cia, rozpowszechnione jako pozegnanie, tak jak 
slowko serwus oznaczajace sluge, jak polskie wyrazenie "sluga unizony").

Jak mowili na niewolnikow Wikingowie, tego nie wiem, ale na pewno okreslenie
sclavus=niewolnik jest duzo starsze niz Wikingowie, siega pierwszych stuleci 
naszej ery.

To co napisalem powyzej jest stosunkowo pewne, ciekawsza sprawa jest
to, dlaczego wlasciwie Slowianie nazywaja sie Slowianie! Interpretacja 
wywodzaca ich od "slowa" jako synonimu zrozumialej mowy jest tylko
domyslem, niewykluczone tez (jak pisal np. Z.Stieber w Gramatyce 
Porownawczej Jezykow Slowianskich) ze pochodzi od jakiejs nazwy 
geograficznej (rzeka, jezioro?) podobnej do "slowo" - koncowka -ianie
jest dla takich konstrukcji typowa.

Lukasz Bielecki

George Szaszvari > wrote:
>
>Dear Liviu,
>
>Why do you feel the need to stoop to quoting anti-Hungarian jibes? You 
>post the one about the Hungarian who said *let's kill him and steal...* 
>story as though this sums up the Hungarian mentality, and now this 
>*steal two chickens...* thing...Are you so insecure that you feel you 
>need to try to diminish others before you can feel equal to them??? If 

George:
You totally misconstrued Liviu's comment.
First, he did not originate the "let's kill him" joke; he only quoted it
in his answer.
Second, the "Hungarian gulash" response from him was just the opposite of
what you thought: a sarcastic retort intended to demolish the first
joke.

If anything, Liviu has been consistently at fight with most of his
fellow Romanians pointing out "the errors in their ways" for which he is
usually roundly condemned as some kind of "lackey" of the Hungarians.

Please try to read the articles more carefully before you jump on
somebody so undeservedly.

Thanks for your consideration,
Joe Pannon

Could someone give me some info. regarding the connections between
Budapest's International Airport and the main railroad station.
Busses, cabs, fares, distance, time ... etc.
Respond by email or post to this group. Thanks for your time.

Alex
 

-- 
                Politically Incorrect And Damn Proud Of It
          Timisoara's (Romania) Home Page http://www.webcom.com/~timis  
          Romanian Soccer Page http://www.webcom.com/~timis/soccer.html

 (Pseudopodium of VI) wrote:
>Eugene  *fraer* ) wrote:
>: 
>: As for the word "rus", its meaning is never been clear.  AFAIK The original 
Rus 
>
>It seems to me that it was always explained with the fact
>that original Russians, presumably, had "light-red" hair --
>"russyi" in Russian.

Just the opposite: word "rusyj" - dark blond originated from "rus" - Russian.

AFAIK the root "rus" is much older then "rusyj" and had directly geographical
meaning.


DISCLAIMER: Written above expresses opinions of the fraer only,
and even other fraers would not agree with this.

I'm an italian boy and I'm going to visit Hungary.
I'm just searching some information about Keszthely and Sofok
on the Balaton lake. In particular:

- The weather

- Railways and relative stations

- Turism in Keszthelt and Sofok

I thank everyone that will reply to my questions and I'll help
everyone if he's searching for informations about north Italy

I will be on the web Friday 1 Dicember (tomorrow)

                                         Fabrizio (Midnight 
Sun)

TO : soc.culture.magyar, soc.culture.romanian

>From:  (Tomas Attila Paulsen Olaj)
 
 .... 
 >Attila spells with two 't'`s, OK?

Oh, Gee ! Thanks for correcting us on it.
Just wondering, Mr. Olaj, where the heck did you get your last name
from ?  Was your grandfather a "Hungarian" shephard who got lost
coming down the mountain looking for his flock and ended up in Buda
speaking "Magyar" all of a sudden ?

Do enlighten us now !

Regards,

Adrian (with one d) but you can use many rrrrrrr..s

In article >,  (Karl Pollak) wrote
:

>  (Tomas Drgon) wrote:
> 
> >This has a little to do with racism. The expression "to talk like a
> >Hungarian" (rozpravas jak Madar) is a slang expression for talking
> >nonsense. 
> 
> But Tommy, that is EXACTLY what racism IS !!
> 
> It just shows how deeply these racial/national prejudices run.
> Unfortunately, it is not limited to Slovak, it runs in just about in
> every language, every nation.
> 
> In Czech, there is an expression "Turecke hospodarstvi" (Turkish
> economy) to signify mindless chaos.  I remember an official protest
> from the Republic of Turkey to Czechoslovakia in the 1960s when one of
> the CS Ministers used it in his speech.  Quite justifiable complaint,
> in my view.
> 
> Phrases like that even though may seem harmless to the speaker (oh, we
> don't mean anything by that, it's just a figure of speech) do instil
> ideas in the audience of contempt or ridicule of the nationality or
> group of the people mentioned, without any justification in fact.
> 
> I am quite sure that there would be a lot of people complaining if I
> started telling somebody here that he is as stupid as a Slovak and
> tried to excuse it by saying "oh, it's just a slang expression ..., no
> harm intended..."
> 
> 
> 
> Karl Pollak               FidoNet 1:153/965

Yes, you are probably right, Karl, but I still think it is a sort of
benign form of racism. USA is full of Polish jokes and I do not think it
influences peoples' behavior towards Poles. These figures of speech are
not real stereotypes, thay are just remnants of old stereotypes. If you
think about "mongolism" (a trivial name for certain form trisomy (genetic
dissease)) ...In last century Mongolians were considered as mentally
retarded. Nowadays everybody knows it is not true, but the name remains
even in medicine textbooks. Therefor, I don't mind using the "co si madar"
saying, and I do not mind Hungarians using the expression "butatoth".  


TD

-- 
Signature under construction...

Parker Lim reports that he found very few people in Hungary who spoke
English, and he believes this is due to the fault of the Hungarian
educational system.  But Mr. Lim does not dig deep enough.  I was an English
teacher in Hungary until July, and I know the problems which exist in finding
qualified Hungarian English teachers.  This is largely due to the legacy of
mandatory study of Russian for over forty years, as probably any Hungarian
would tell you.  Through no fault of their own really, many Hungarians
trained to be Russian teachers, due to the high demand for this occupation.
 Other languages were not as in demand, and therefore, people did not prepare
for a career in teaching English, German, etc., simply because the jobs were
not to be had.

On 30 Nov 1995  wrote:

> Thanks, Dan!  I thought you'd like that.
> You know, it was such a nice high serve and I've been aching for a good
> tennis ever since I've got some low blows from Hermes, Adrian & Co.
> This one was just too good to pass. ;-)

Panonica sweet cheeks, this post of yours was not even a low blow !
It was a somewhat acurate description of the stark naked truth, that is
offending the traveler's nose in many a public facility throughout Romania.

Now you may have gloated over it, like the the low to the ground oinkers
that enjoy wallowing in excrement ! But I do not think that going into 
denial as some on scr do, every time this comes up, will do much to clean
up public facilities in Romania.

m. cristian

T. Kocsis > writes:
>  Daniel Nikovski,  writes:
>>A German friend of mine told me that Deutsch comes from the name of the 
>>tribe Teutons - of course, their name might come from "thiut" in its turn.
> 
> This word also went through an interesting transformation:
> Thiut ---> Tót 
> 
> Tót means Slovak in Hungarian.

Maybe it's the fault of my newsreader but I read here "Tst".
The correct word is To't, where o' indicates lengthened o.

                              Ferenc Nemeth