(aheringer) wrote:

>In article >,
>Biztos, azt akarod hogy, oreg, alacsony, kopasz, kover, magyarok
>legioja irkaljon neked leveleket?
>>> >Istvan

>>Agnes:
>>> En is alacsony vagyok, oreg es kover (nem kopasz).  Nem akarok
>>> hozzamenni felesegul.

>>Akkor minden rendbe van, en nagyon boldog
>>hazas vagyok (a felesegem itt al mogottem es mondta, hogy ezt irjam), es
>>nem tudom megkerni felesegul.
>>Istvan
>
>En sem vagyok venkisasszony....
>Agnes
>


Tyuha! Egy napig nem olvasom ezt a rovatot, es mindjart
kimaradok a leanykeresbol! Hol vannak ezek a kis uzenetek? -
mindent osszekerestem ertuk!  Agi es Istvan civil dolgokrol
beszelgetnek, pletykazgatnak..., hat megszol a vilag,..!
Hogy en is beszalljak a vetelgetobe: nem vagyok alacsony...

Visszaterve a temara, amit azt hiszem mar bezarhatunk,
hiszen mindenki egyetert, mar amennyire ket (es itt meg
tobb) magyar egyet tud erteni.
Bogsanyi Denestol is kaptam egy nagyon szep, atgondolt
levelet, amit sajnos az e-mail cimemre kuldott, es igy
nehezebb nyilvanosan megvalaszolni, es ugyerzem, hogy
tulajdonkeppen kozottunk sincs lenyegbevago kulonbseg. Egy
dolog kivetelevel.
Denes azt irja (nem szoszerint idezek, hanem ugy ahogy ertem
levele tartalmat), hogy nem hallott a csendorseg altal
elkovetett tenyleges atrocitasokrol. Azt is irja, hogy ezzel
szemben, hallott olyan esetekrol, amikor a csendorseg inkabb
enyhitette a keze alatt levok sorsat.
Sajnos, en mindkettorol hallottam. Nem vitas, hogy a Magyar
Kiralyi Csendorseg egy kivalo karhatalmi szervezet volt es
sajnos idonkent politikai celokra hasznaltak. Nagyon
hasonlithato a Kanadai Kiralyi Lovas Csendorseghez. Egesz
biztosan voltak segitokesz, melegszivu csendorok. A
csendorseg joresze az egyik legertekesebb magyar tarsadalmi
retegbol: a kis es kozepbirtokos parasztsagbol lett
toborozva (ez a reteg az, akit a kesobbi kommunista rezsim
mint kulakot (magyarul: zsirosparaszt) belyegzett meg, es
irtott hatalma teljeben. Ezek a testben es lelekben egyarant
egeszseges parasztfiuk nem kepeztek egy szadista tomeget,
hanem probaltak embertelen parancsokat katonasan
teljesiteni. Mint minden emberi csoportban, kozottuk is volt
embertelen gazember, aki "lelkesebben" kovette ezeket a
parancsokat, mint kellett. Ezt elosegitette az eveken
keresztul hallott propaganda a szelsoseges jobboldalrol,
neha sajat tarsaiktol, tisztjeiktol es foleg politikai
mestereiktol, uraiktol. Sajnos, a csendorseg folott nemcsak
a sajat tisztjei es a belugyminiszter allottak, hanem a
szolgabirok, foszolgabirok es alispanok is, akiknek
szemelyisege es politikai nezetei nagyban befolyasoltak,
hogy korzetukben mily modon bantak a zsidokkal es az
ellenzekukkel.
Ebben viszont B. D.-el is egyetertunk, szerinte is a
bevagonirozas politikai elhatarozas volt. Amit, ahogy B.D.
is utal ra, nemely tiszt minimalisan hajtott vegre, s ebben
rejlik az is hogy mig egy masik resz normalisan, ahogy a
parancs megkovetelte, ugy nehany "maximalisan", azaz a
szuksegesnel kegyetlenebbul. Azt is be kell latnunk, hogy
minden vegrehajto kegyetelen az aldozatnak.
Es megint ismetlem, hogy mindez nem teszi a magyarsagot
kivulallova, kulonosse Europaban, a tobbi nemzet is
hasonloan viselkedett, Ami viszont nem mentseg, s ezert a
szegyen a mienk. De azt is mondom hogy a Nemzetet nem fedi
bun, es aki a Nepet buntudattal akarja megterhelni, epp
olyan felelotlenul okoz kart, mint aki tagadja apaink minden
vetket.

Ezen a teman ez volt az utolso szavam.
Deo gratias!
Dominus

At 06:47 PM 3/19/97 -0500, Eva Balogh wrote:

>At 07:26 PM 3/18/97 -0400, Joe Szalaiwrote, quoting me:

Szalaiwrote??  You're not confusing me with Stowewrite, are you?  He and I
don't agree on everything, you know.

<snip>
>        I really wonder how your mind works because what you just wrote
>above makes no sense whatsover. Or, rather, I have no idea how you came to
>that conclusion from what I wrote.

<snip>
>Is this so terribly difficult to
>understand? Or is this has anything to do with slipping money to the doctor
>for better and faster service? Bribing? You must be outright crazy to
>compare the two situations!!

I might be crazy but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.  When you think of it,
bribing and private insurance are only different in one important way.
Bribing is unethical, and possibly illegal, while private insurance is
legal and may have the force of law behind it.  But they both get you what
you want.

And thanks for your little explanation of how hospitals work in the United
States.  I didn't realize that those who pay health insurance actually help
pay for services for those who can't afford it.  How nobel!  I guess I'll
have to tell all my Canadian friends that the poor and uninsured can show
up at *any* hospital, at *any* emergency department, and they will be
treated, gratis.  But if that's the case, what happens if all the beds are
filled by the uninsured and you, or those insured,  need care?  Are you put
on a waiting list?

<snip>
>        Did I say that I like this system? No, in fact, I said the opposite.

You keep saying that you don't like the American health-care system but you
never seem to miss a chance defending it.

>I don't think that doctors should be as much money as they do make. However,
>it is a fact of life that if Canadian doctors feel that they could make more
>money next door, they will go next door, especially since they have no
>language problems.

Canada is not unilingual.  Francophone doctors would still have a language
problem.

>It is simply selling the house in Canada and buying a new
>one in the United States. Most likely a bigger and better one and making a
>great deal more money. That's human nature.

No.  That's greed.

Joe Szalai

At 08:29 PM 3/19/97 -0400, Aniko Dunford wrote:

<snip>
>A fairly close acquaintance of ours has recently moved to the States.  When
>scrutinized for his move by the locals, he had but a few things to say.  In
>summary:  He is facing a student loan in excess of $50K Can.  He is
>earning, 35K Can and is working 16+ hours a day.  He has a family of three
>to support.  His earnings simply cannot cover this student loan, his
>insurance fees, rented home and his extremely modest living standards.  In
>this instance, a doctor and his family simply migrated to the States, in
>order so that they can faster rid themselves of debts incurred just trying
>to become a doctor.

1. I don't believe that a doctor in Canada makes only 35K a year.
2. Tuition pays for less than 20% of a persons education.  Your acquaintance
   owes Canadians not 50K but 250K for his education.  I feel sorry for
those of
   us who paid for his education, including you, Aniko.  Do you always feel
   sorry for those who rip off a system for their personal gain?


>Many locals have the philosophy that since the *government* funded his
>education through student loans, he *owes* the country.  He prefers to look
>at it in such a way, that until he's able to pay back the government, the
>people have a legit gripe.  And as such, he has made a decision to pay back
>that, which he feels he owes likely at a faster rate than he could by
>remaining in this homeland.

He'll only be paying back a fraction.  No tears for him from me.

>The way I see it; neither his lifestyle or his income will be any greater
>by the decision to move south of the border.  Initially, only the speed of
>which he pays back his debts is increased through the move.  When one looks
>at that in this light, one begins to wonder as to who is actually letting
>who down?

Being let down?  We're being screwed by people like you acquaintance.

Joe Szalai

****************** CALL FOR ACTION ****************

Priority:
   normal

Background:
  The simultaneous integration of Romania and Hungary into NATO is in
the best interest of our Transylvanian Hungarian brethren, of the
region, and of our peoples and countries. This is also recognized by
the RMDSZ, by simple citizens, and by Hungarian politicians of the
government as well as of the opposition.
  Unfortunately, Romania is not mentioned when Western
politicians talk about NATO expansion. During the next week our
friends from the Romanian Lobby will intensify their efforts
for the cause of Romania's integration into NATO in the first
wave, along with Hungary, the Czech Republic and Poland.

What to do:
  Please support the work of our Romanian friends by sending Secretary
of State Albright a letter in which you express the importance of
Romania's integration into NATO in the first wave of the expansion.
Feel free to use the attached form letter. Note that Albright will
only take notice if she receives thousands of letters.
  Therefore please send at least one letter every day and ask your
friends who do not have contact with HL to do the same.

e-mail address of Albright:


*************************************************************

<date>

The Honorable Madeleine Albright
United States Secretary of State
U.S. Department of State
2201 C Street, NW
Washington, DC  20520
E-Mail: )

Dear Madame Secretary:

As a member of the Hungarian Lobby I am deeply interested in the
future of East-Central Europe, and recognize the need for simultaneous
integration of the countries of the region into NATO. This would
stabilize the whole region and assure the orderly transition toward
democracy and market economy, without the turmoil seen in the former
Yugoslavia.

Romania, a country of 23 milion people, with affinity toward western
culture, at the same time represents the best potential base of
stability in the Balkans.

Romania's ongoing political democratization and reorganization of all
central and local governmental institutions, the inclusion of the
large Hungarian minority in the government, and the expected
subsequent satisfaction of legitimate minority claims are -- and may
become -- positive examples for the countries of the region.

A look at the map of Europe shows Romania to be the gateway to the
East. Only through this gateway will it be possible to access the
heart of Europe, and the key that will allow this gateway to stay open
-- and to defend it effectively at the same time -- is NATO membership
for Romania.

With an important economic potential due to a large and fertile
agricultural area, her metallurgical and defense industries ready to
produce for her allies, possessing the biggest maritime port in
Eastern Europe, with a multiethnic population and large urban
comunities, Romania is just as much an important future partner and
ally of the European Community and of NATO as are Poland, the Czech
Republic, and Hungary.

For all the above considerations, I ask you, Madame Secretary, to
support the inclusion of Romania, along with Hungary, the Czech
Republic and Poland, among the first group of countries to be
integrated into NATO.

Respectfully,

<name, title, address>

****************** CALL FOR ACTION ****************

Priority:
   normal

Background:
  The simultaneous integration of Romania and Hungary into NATO is in
the best interest of our Transylvanian Hungarian brethren, of the
region, and of our peoples and countries. This is also recognized by
the RMDSZ, by simple citizens, and by Hungarian politicians of the
government as well as of the opposition.
  Unfortunately, Romania is not mentioned when Western
politicians talk about NATO expansion. During the next week our
friends from the Romanian Lobby will intensify their efforts
for the cause of Romania's integration into NATO in the first
wave, along with Hungary, the Czech Republic and Poland.

What to do:
  Please support the work of our Romanian friends by sending Secretary
of State Albright a letter in which you express the importance of
Romania's integration into NATO in the first wave of the expansion.
Feel free to use the attached form letter. Note that Albright will
only take notice if she receives thousands of letters.
  Therefore please send at least one letter every day and ask your
friends who do not have contact with HL to do the same.

e-mail address of Albright:


*************************************************************

<date>

The Honorable Madeleine Albright
United States Secretary of State
U.S. Department of State
2201 C Street, NW
Washington, DC  20520
E-Mail: )

Dear Madame Secretary:

As a member of the Hungarian Lobby I am deeply interested in the
future of East-Central Europe, and recognize the need for simultaneous
integration of the countries of the region into NATO. This would
stabilize the whole region and assure the orderly transition toward
democracy and market economy, without the turmoil seen in the former
Yugoslavia.

Romania, a country of 23 milion people, with affinity toward western
culture, at the same time represents the best potential base of
stability in the Balkans.

Romania's ongoing political democratization and reorganization of all
central and local governmental institutions, the inclusion of the
large Hungarian minority in the government, and the expected
subsequent satisfaction of legitimate minority claims are -- and may
become -- positive examples for the countries of the region.

A look at the map of Europe shows Romania to be the gateway to the
East. Only through this gateway will it be possible to access the
heart of Europe, and the key that will allow this gateway to stay open
-- and to defend it effectively at the same time -- is NATO membership
for Romania.

With an important economic potential due to a large and fertile
agricultural area, her metallurgical and defense industries ready to
produce for her allies, possessing the biggest maritime port in
Eastern Europe, with a multiethnic population and large urban
comunities, Romania is just as much an important future partner and
ally of the European Community and of NATO as are Poland, the Czech
Republic, and Hungary.

For all the above considerations, I ask you, Madame Secretary, to
support the inclusion of Romania, along with Hungary, the Czech
Republic and Poland, among the first group of countries to be
integrated into NATO.

Respectfully,

<name, title, address>

Dear fellow-listmembers,

I'm forwarding a few things that have appeared on the Hungary list,
which I am doing for information purposes only, any further use or
transmission of this material should probably have the permission of
the original poster.  But I thought these things might be of interest
to some on this list.

Sincerely,

Hugh Agnew

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:05:04 +100
From: Irina Vasiljevna Popova, The Central European University
>

A summary of Georg von Habsburg's lecture, suggested below, is based on
its record and transcript.  The speaker did not have a written text, just
the main points, as he said he did not like to give lectures.


Georg von Habsburg:

THE HABSBURG HERITAGE AND THE IDEA OF A UNIFIED EUROPE

A summary of the lecture delivered at the Central European University
(Budapest, Hungary) on March 11, 1997

The speaker traced the roots of the European tradition in the Habsburg
family back to two major historical events. The first and the most
significant was the heritage of Burgundy, which was "one of the most
unique decentralised areas in all Europe," and had an administration based
on the recognition of local rights. After Burgundy was defeated by France,
the last heir to the throne was married to a Habsburg, "so all the
Burgundy heritage came to the Habsburg family".

"Another influence came earlier through Alsace. Rudolph von Habsburg,
elected as the Holy Roman emperor, was supported by the Alsatian cities
and by Franciscan monks". The combination of those made the Habsburg
family to work with smaller entities and to rely on their support.
According to the speaker, the Moravian equal rights amendment of 1906 [the
Moravian compromise of 1906 - I.P.] could be an example of the policy that
did not give superiority to any of the nationalities of this territory. So
the idea of the bigger entity which gives possibilities to survive to the
smaller entities was a part of Habsburg policy. It is considered by the
speaker as a part of the Habsburg vision of Europe.

Count Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi, the author of the book _Paneuropa_,
published in 1923, was also born in Moravia. The message of this book is
the union of Europe in order to avoid a new armed conflict on the
continent. The interwar Pan-European Movement did not succeed, the Second
World War broke out, and Jalta and Potsdam manifested the division of
Europe. Supported among others by Otto von Habsburg, Coudenhove-Kalergi
continued his activities after the war, and initiated the European
Parliamentary Union, "out of which later came the European institutions
like the European Coal and Steel Community, Euroatom, the European
Economic Community, and afterwards, the European Union".

The most important steps on the way to Maastricht were the free elections
to the European Parliament in 1979, and Pan-European picnic in 1989, when
Hungary played an important role in the unification of Europe and in
destroying the iron curtain. In this respect, "it is very remarkable that
the German Chancellor Helmut Kohl said ... that the soil under the
Brandenburg arch should be considered as Hungarian soil".

Talking about European integration today and the possibilities for the
near future, the speaker stressed two main elements. First is the
enlargement of the EU and its expansion eastwards, which would start with
the incorporation of Poland, Czech Republic, Slovenia, and Hungary as the
most advanced countries of the region.

Secondly, the European integration is urged by security reasons. As far as
East-Central Europe is concerned, the enlargement of the European Union is
not so much the question of economics, but first of all the question of
security, given the conditions of political instability in Russia and her
disintegration, caused by the process of decolonisation. "When the first
Russian soldier set his foot eastwards of the Urals, England and France
had already done the colonisation in Africa, Asian, and other parts of the
world. Talking about de-colonisation today, we never think about Russia",
where decolonisation is currently happening. The other example of conflict
is Bosnia. "If we have learned something from history, this is the fact
that the construction of corridors, and sectors, and influence zones have
never been a very fruitful development" in this area.

Among the ways of promoting European integration and inclusion of
East-Central European countries into the EU, the speaker emphasised the
necessity to provide information about the EU in order to get a serious
discussion of the issues, and the need to stimulate cultural interchange.
This should be done through the support of mass media and training
East-European journalists. The work on environmental issues is one more
component of this process, and it will enable East European countries to
fit into the standards of the EU.

Clear definition of the European perspective seems to the speaker crucial
for stimulating the efforts to integrate the countries of Eastern Europe
into the EU. As outlined by the speaker, Europe should be "the Europe of
regions," and the Europe without borders, where everyone will be free to
travel, to work, and to reside wherever one would like. And "this is
something so incredible, so beautiful, that it is really worth working
for".

Answering questions, the speaker stressed that Eastern Europe should not
be afraid to lose its identity while intending to join the EU. "In
Hungary, identity is so strong that it can even give some very positive
impact on Europe". The principle of subsidiarity in the EU, together with
the spirit of teamwork in the EP, makes impossible for one state to
dominate it, and the EP will "surely become more important in the future".

Extension of the EU eastward cannot be regarded as escaping from inner
problems of EU, since it would be unreasonable to close the borders of the
EU, according to the speaker. Inclusion could help to avoid the problems
and crises in unstable areas, so the EU "should go ahead in negotiating".

According to the speaker, inclusion of Hungary, the Czech Republic,
Poland, and Slovenia into the EU and NATO will not create a new border in
Europe, and will not mean insecurity for the countries not included in the
above structures. As the speaker put it, "Moldavia, Ukraine, Bielorussia
have incredible possibilities in the future and high potential for very
strong development., and ...the closer are the borders of the EU to those
countries, the more are the possibilities for them to develop". Tensions
between the countries which are included in the EU, and the "outsiders"
are probable, but at the same time, the "outsiders" could get a stimulus
for integration into the EU.

Answering a question as to whether Turkey can be admitted into the EU, the
speaker was positive that it would be possible. The EU should not exclude
Turkey since she plays a very important role in her part of the world,
being a stabilising factor in the destabilised area of the former Soviet
borderlands.

Assessing the role of the Habsburg family in the European process, the
speaker accented their goal, namely to work for European integration. He
defined his own goal as bringing Hungary closer to the EU using its
connections in the European Parliament, and the Habsburg family
connections with the European families. He indicated the European identity
of the family, which preserves its Central European roots.

If some personal remarks may be added to this summary, I [I.P.] would note
that the idea of the European mission of the Habsburg dynasty has been
elaborated by the body of historic literature, Adam Wandruszka could be
just one an example. In this respect, the lecture appears interesting from
the point of view of the Habsburg family's present identity and
interpretation of the family's heritage. The historical part of the
lecture seems to be a projection of the contemporary vision of Europe into
the past, and simultaneously an extraction of "history's lessons". And the
whole picture of European integration as presented by the speaker looks
very much simplified and so idealistic, that, as one of my colleagues
remarked, "you first resent it, but then even start liking it".

Dear listmembers,

Here's another Hungary-related contribution to the Habsburg list.  The
Southern Conference of Slavic Studies begins today and runs until the
weekend.

Sincerely,

Hugh Agnew

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
From  Mar 19 15:42:39 1997
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:26:52 -0500 (EST)

Abstract of paper to be presented at the Southern Conference of Slavic
Studies, Lexington, Kentucky (March 20-22, 1997)

                "Making Up is Hard To Do: Tito and the
                Hungary-Yugoslav Rapprochement, 1955-56"

                        Johanna Granville
                        Carnegie Mellon Univesity

Exactly forty years ago the first major anti-Soviet uprising in eastern
Europe -- the revolution in Hungary (1956)--took place. Most scholars have
focused on Soviet-Hungarian relations to discern causes of the conflict.
What has been neglected is the Hungarian-Yugoslav "normalization" process
in the months preceding the Hungarian revolt, and Josip Broz Tito's
ambiguous role in the conflict (synthesizing recent reassessments of Tito
as ambitious opportunist, not dogmatist). It has been assumed that once
Soviet-Yugoslav relations were "normalized" in July 1955, Yugoslavia's
rapprochement with the other "peoples' democracies" quickly ensued. In
this article, which draws on recently declassified documents from four of
Moscow's key archives, I show that, in fact, the Yugoslav-Hungarian
rapprochement was especially slow and tortuous. Ironically, having
initiated the rift with Yugoslavia in 1948 and enlisted the support of the
peoples' democracies in Tito-bashing, Moscow now discovered it could not
so easily induce them to make up with Tito in 1955-56. This foot-dragging
by the Hungarian dictator Matyas Rakosi (the last "Stalinist" to exit the
stage) and the lingering bitterness of Tito and his subordinates may have
been a causal factor in the Hungarian revolt. Moreover, the documents
suggest that Tito did not insist on Rakosi's ouster, and did not
explicitly support the reformist Imre Nagy in the summer of 1956, as
commonly believed. I also examine the crucial role played by the
information providers -- diplomats, journalists and government officials
from the USSR, Hungary, and Yugoslavia. We can better understand the
events in the fall of 1956 if we view them as the result of the mutual
interplay of different sub-national groups with unique perspectives,
rather than in terms of deliberate actions of unitary rational actors. The
diplomats' views of the situation -- particularly with respect to the
Yugoslav role -- may have led the Soviet leaders to misconstrue the real
origins of the rebellion and hence to decide on the wrong course of
action. Finally, I explain the hitherto unknown circumstances surrounding
Tito's decision to grant Nagy political refuge in his Budapest embassy on
the day of the invasion (November 4, 1956). Tito's reluctance to surrender
Nagy -- and the later Soviet abduction of him -- chilled Soviet-Yugoslav
relations once again.

Johanna Granville
Assistant Professor
History Department
Carnegie Mellon Univesity
Pittsburgh, PA

Dear listmembers,

This query also appeared on the Habsburg list; and so far nobody has
responded to the list with anything helpful.  Does anybody among our
readership have any leads?  If so you should reply directly to the
person asking the question by writing to the e-mail address in his
header.

Too bad the text in Hungarian wouldn't help him!:-)

Hugh Agnew

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:30:00 +0100
From: Rainer Ohliger >

Could anybody on HABSBURG help me to locate an online version of the
Romanian-Hungarian Basic Treaty (in Romanian, English, French or German)?

Rainer Ohliger
Humboldt-Universitaet zu Berlin
Sozialwissenschaften
Lehrstuhl Bevoelkerungswissenschaft
Unter den Linden 6
D-10099 Berlin
Tel.: 030/2093-1973
Fax: 030/2093-1432
email:

---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Valasz Mr.Liptaknak
Date:    97-03-20 09:00:21 EST
From:    Gregilkem
To:      Liptakbela
CC:      Gregilkem

Tisztelt Liptak ur,

az alabbi uraknak kuldtem e-mailt vagy faxot kerven, hogy az
allasfoglalasukkal tamogassak az ugyer Mr.Schweibelnel :
Mr.Carter, Mr.Deconcini, Mr.Dodd, Mr.Habsburg, Mr.Clinton, Mr.Gore,
Mrs.Boxer, Mr.Helms, Mr.Rockefeller, 
Mr.Lieberman, Mr.Kennedy, Mr.Faircloth, Mr.Leutenberg, Mr.D'Amato,
Mr.Gingrich, Mr.Lantos.
Mr.Zinke es Mr.Cousteau fax-szama valoszinuleg nem jo.
A helyi ujsagnak,  - eleg nagy itt North Carolinaban - elkuldtem az On
sajto-tajekoztato anyagat a melleklettel egyutt, 
kerven, hogy irjanak rola es az egesz hagai perrol. Valasz meg nem erkezett.
Sok sikert kivanok a hagai utjahoz, ha visszaerkezett, kuldhetne egy par sort
a benyomasairol.
Tisztelettel:
Greg Kemeny - 

---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Valasz Mr.Liptaknak
Date:    97-03-20 09:00:21 EST
From:    Gregilkem
To:      Liptakbela
CC:      Gregilkem

Tisztelt Liptak ur,

az alabbi uraknak kuldtem e-mailt vagy faxot kerven, hogy az
allasfoglalasukkal tamogassak az ugyer Mr.Schweibelnel :
Mr.Carter, Mr.Deconcini, Mr.Dodd, Mr.Habsburg, Mr.Clinton, Mr.Gore,
Mrs.Boxer, Mr.Helms, Mr.Rockefeller,
Mr.Lieberman, Mr.Kennedy, Mr.Faircloth, Mr.Leutenberg, Mr.D'Amato,
Mr.Gingrich, Mr.Lantos.
Mr.Zinke es Mr.Cousteau fax-szama valoszinuleg nem jo.
A helyi ujsagnak,  - eleg nagy itt North Carolinaban - elkuldtem az On
sajto-tajekoztato anyagat a melleklettel egyutt,
kerven, hogy irjanak rola es az egesz hagai perrol. Valasz meg nem erkezett.
Sok sikert kivanok a hagai utjahoz, ha visszaerkezett, kuldhetne egy par sort
a benyomasairol.
Tisztelettel:
Greg Kemeny - 

Dear Readers:

   There is a bar chart, showing health spending as % of GDP of various
countries in 1995, in the latest issue of The Economist. Next to the bars,
health spending per head are also shown in figures. It looks like this:

                               %of GDP                     US$/head
                    0        5        10        15
United States       XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX           3,830
France              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                    2,620
Germany             XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                     2,840
Austria             XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                     2,780
Switzerland         XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                     4,150
Canada              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                      1,800
Netherlands         XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                       2,250
Australia           XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                       1,620
Belgium             XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                       2,120
Sweden              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                        2,010
Italy               XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                        1,460
Spain               XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                        1,080
Portugal            XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                          760
Japan               XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                         2,940
Britain             XXXXXXXXXXXXXX                          1,300
Denmark             XXXXXXXXXXXXX                           2,150
Greece              XXXXXXXXXXXX                              570

   I think, these statistics show that a Canadian or an Australian would
consider the British health care system poor, compared to their own, the
Swiss overly generous, but affordable, while the American one obviously too
costly.
Hungary would be best off following the Canadian or Australian low cost systems
.
                                       Istvan L. Szabolcsy

In article >, Zimanyi
Magdolna > writes:

>Subject:       numerus clausus in the U.S.
>From:  Zimanyi Magdolna >
>Date:  Wed, 19 Mar 1997 23:57:10 +0100
>
>There was some debate a few days ago about the numerus clausus in the
>U.S. in the thirties. Here is a contribution to this topic.
>
>An excerpt from the book
>
>"What Do You Care What Other People Think?"
>Further Adventures of a Curious Character
>Richard P. Feynman
>as told to Ralph Leighton,
>W.W. Norton&Company
>New York, London, 1988
>
> Richard P. Feynman (1918-1988) was a Nobel prize winner in physics.
>The book contains autobiographical stories from the life of Feynman
>told in first person singular.
>
> On pages 30-33. one can read as follows:
>
> "I was the best in sicence, the best in Mathematics, the best in
>physics, and the best in chemistry [at school]. [...]
>
> My mother reassured Dr. Augsberry [math teacher of R. Feynman]:  'We
>are saving money as best we can, and we're trying to send him to
>Columbia or MIT.' [...]
>
>After that summer I went away to college at MIT. (I couldn't go to
>Columbia because of the Jewish quota. *)"
>
>There is a footnote in the book to explain what the quota system was:
>
> "Note for foreign readers: the quota system was a discriminatory
>practice of limiting the number of places in a university available to
>students of Jewish background."
>
>As Feynman was born in 1918 all this happened about 1936-38.
>
>I can recommend to everybody to read the book. Feynman was an
>extraordinary personality and the book is a fascinating reading.
>
> Best regards
>
> Magdolna Zimanyi
> KFKI Research Institute for Particle  Phone: +36-1-395-9242
> and Nuclear Physics                   FAX:   +36-1-395-9151
> Computer Networking Center            E-mail: 
> H-1525 Budapest 114, POB. 49, Hungary URL: http://www.kfki.hu/~mzimanyi
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

Feynman's worth reading because he was the rare scientific genius who could
lucidly impart not only the highly technical details of his discoveries, but
also the simple joy of exploration which
fueled his curiosity. Nevertheless, you've taken this quote well out of its
historical context in what appears to be an attempt to implicitly defend the
indefensible. I think Eva Balogh has already
addressed this, but it won't hurt to point it out again -- any restriction of
the numbers of Jews in Ivy League universities was an ad hoc and informal
process rather than enshrined in state and
federal law. The Hungarian situation during this time was far more serious --
numerus clausus was the law of the land and it was systematically enforced by
the government.
Sam Stowe

P.S. -- Do you suppose Columbia, et. al., were just as scrupulous about not
admitting large numbers of students of Irish background, Roman Catholics,
Southerners, blacks and women during the same
era? It sure wouldn't surprise me.
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31,110233,110310,110331-110332,110338,110344,110372-110373,110378,110429,110460
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62,92874,92887,92892,92910,92960,92963,92967,93006,93008,93013,93021BY,e

"If you hear a Southerner say, 'Hey, y'all, watch this!',
move away from him immediately. They're usually
the last words he'll ever utter..."
-- from "Southbound," a primer for our Northern friends
contemplating a move to the promised land.

At 07:57 AM 3/20/97 -0800, Istvan L. Szabolcsy wrote:

<snip>
>   I think, these statistics show that a Canadian or an Australian would
>consider the British health care system poor, compared to their own, the
>Swiss overly generous, but affordable, while the American one obviously too
>costly.
>Hungary would be best off following the Canadian or Australian low cost
systems.
>                                       Istvan L. Szabolcsy

I agree with you.  And thanks for the chart from the Economist.

Joe Szalai

Here are a couple of memorable quotes from the health-care debate:

I am surprised that people are happy with something that they do not (know)
how
much is costing them.
       -- Jeliko

It is an amazing thing, isn't it.
       -- Eva Balogh

In article >,
 says...
>
>Hi Everyone!
>
>Just thought, that I'd drop a few lines for the fun of it all:-)
>
>I get back from being away, and there are over 300 messages to download;
-
  So ... what's going on?  Is everyone allergic to my "being back" or
>have we all simply ran out of things to say?  Or are we all burried in
>taxes at this time?  Why the eerie silence?
>
>I don't quite know either.  I subscribe "no mail", because I don't want
to download hundreds of mail, but yesterday I couldn't access WINVN at
all, and this happened a couple times last week too.

Agnes

In article >,
 says...
>
>Do you know any man from Hungary who was born on February 8, who would
now
>be about 60 years old?  He may be your co-worker, neighbor, friend,
>husband, father, or even your grandfather.
>
>He may not remember that he was Jewish, or that his name was "MIKLOS
>REISMANN". He was born on February 8, 1937, but may have been given a
>different year of birth after the War.
>
>In 1944, before his mother was deported, she hid her seven-year old son
>with a Christian family, in Budapest, Hungary.  When his mother returned
>to Budapest, she learned that her son and the family hiding him had
>vanished without a trace.
>
>We are the family of Miklos Reismann, and we are asking your help.  For
>more details, and to view a photo, please go to our family's web page.
>
>The URL is:    http://members.aol.com/lenke10
>
>If you know anyone with a Hungarian background who cannot access the
>Internet, please give them a copy of our web page.  If you think you
know
>anyone who might be Miklos, or have any information, please send e-mail
>to:   
>
>Thank you.
>
>Lenke Reisman-Altman

Lenke, did you send this to the Menora?  I don't know where you are
located, I can send you their address in the US and in Canada. I believe
putting an ad in this regard in the Hungarian papers would reach a wider
population than the internet.

Good luck!

Agnes

In article >, Joe Szalai
> writes:

>And thanks for your little explanation of how hospitals work in the United
>States.  I didn't realize that those who pay health insurance actually help
>pay for services for those who can't afford it.  How nobel!  I guess I'll
>have to tell all my Canadian friends that the poor and uninsured can show
>up at *any* hospital, at *any* emergency department, and they will be
>treated, gratis.  But if that's the case, what happens if all the beds are
>filled by the uninsured and you, or those insured,  need care?  Are you put
>on a waiting list?

You're treated immediately. Most counties and cities in the U.S. coordinate
emergency coverage among their private and public hospitals alike. For
instance, here in Wake County, North Carolina, Wake
Medical Center is usually where indigent patients are transported for emergency
treatment by the local rescue squads. If Wake Med's emergency care center
reaches a certain capacity, the hospital
institutes a diversion alert which channels rescue squad cases to other
hospitals in the county. It sounds chaotic and it is. But we never run out of
hospital beds and we manage to treat even the
poorest of the poor immediately when they need emergency health care.
Sam Stowe
291 858887899 0 1 soc.history.medieval:
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26 858885420 0 0 talk.philosophy.humanism: 21843-23173
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2 858722961 0 0 triangle.jobs:
125 858885397 0 0 ucb.erotica.sensual: 2031-2125

C'.u
                          AND UPPER(products) LIKE '%word3%'
etc. Get the point ? Now I was wondering if there isn't another possible
solution, I have a list of SQL commandos found in Delphi but no other
explanation can be found in Delphi online Help or the manuals.

If you have the answer/possible solution then please mail it to me since
I don't regurly check the newsgroups.

Thanks in Advance,

Pim van Mun

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////

"If you hear a Southerner say, 'Hey, y'all, watch this!',
move away from him immediately. They're usually
the last words he'll ever utter..."
-- from "Southbound," a primer for our Northern friends
contemplating a move to th

"If you hear a Southerner say, 'Hey, y'all, watch this!',
move away from him immediately. They're usually
the last words he'll ever utter..."
-- from "Southbound," a primer for our Northern friends
contemplating a move to the promised land.

 on Mar 19 19:31:01 EST 1997 in HUNGARY #946:

>        The fact is, of course, that there are many, many considerations
>when it comes to admission to some of the best schools in this country. I
>will talk about Yale University, simply because I know that school best.

Yes, this is how it works.  My Alma Mater (another Ivy school) also sets
informal quotas to ensure a "balanced" class, and to preclude any given group
from being overrepresented.  (Except for children of alumni.)

>Columbia
>considered itself a "national school" and if they let in every bright, even
>brilliant, Jewish students from Manhattan and the five boroughs into
>Columbia the school would have stopped being a national school but would
>have been considered a local Jewish school.

This is not so different from the Numerus Clausus in Hungary a couple of
generations ago.  The real difference is that the former was practiced openly
and had the force of law, while the current US practice is informal and
voluntary.

Ferenc