My,my,what a great feeling is to read all these experts' advisings to
Hungary's problems,on this anti-Hungary "civilized" list.I'm sure
all of Hungary's problems will be solved,if the right people listens
to all these expert-suggestions.It's really intolerable that in this
"wellfare state" Hungary,some people can still afford to eat meat
once a week.Why do they eat at all?Schoolchildren starving?Big
deal,let's close down all the schools.Pensioners complaining,and
starving also?Let's send Dr.Kevorkian over!See,how easy to solve
all problems?However let me wake up some amnesia-stricken
people on this "civilized' list.Time is up in the "Alice in Wonderland"
country.Good Ol' Uncle Sam owes some 5 trillion green-back pesos
(used to be called U.S.dollars),and pay-back time is coming!How much
is this per capita?Dunno.Maybe some mathematical wizards,like
Eva Balogh can calculate it.Untill election time everything is wine and
roses,but look out after!You may envy Hungary,unless Uncle Sam
finds a good,little war somewhere.That's all folks!
The Rambo Arpi.

Dear fellow Netizen,

To conclude this outrageous thread, I want to tell you that
Mr. Kanala is creating anti-Slovakian propaganda and with the
shameless lies and posting like the last one here is trying to
attract attention and steal your valuable time for his
selfish personal vengeance.

My professional advice is to ignore any attention-seeker, like
Mr.Kanala.  Sick individuals like him need treatment and lots
of rest.  The best you can do is to ignore his self-advertisements
and postings claiming his self-righteousness,
which will hopefully help him overcome his sickness.

Kristina, B.A. Psych., Rehab. Cert.

> ---------------------------------------------------------
Roman Kanala ) wrote:
: Dear fellow Netizen,
:
: [...lies deleted...]
: This weekend, I will address some recent defamatory allegations of
: Mr. Frajkor that will, as a side product, demonstrate his use of
: the abovementioned tools.
: The articles will appear in Slovak-L only and will not be crossposted
: ...
: Roman Kanala
: 

In article >  (Kristina
Szurek) writes:
>From:  (Kristina Szurek)
>Subject: Re: Mr. Frajkor, listowner of Slovak-L
>Date: 27 Aug 1996 19:08:41 GMT

>Dear fellow Netizen,

>To conclude this outrageous thread,

You can conclude whatever you want, but the fact remains that Mr. Kanala is
NOT creating ANY kind of anti-Slovak propaganda. Mr. Kanala is merely pointing
out (and he does that for a number of years now) a tendency of Mr. Frajkor to
tolerate and sometimes outright promote fascist tendencies on Slovak-L (all
that while hiding behind "academic freedom") - if you need examples from the
past: Mr. Frajkor denies a responsibility of Jozef Tiso for death of tens of
thousands of Jews during WWII, he regularly promotes a nationalistic hatred
toward Czechs (his invention of "Real-Slovaks" and "czecho-philes").

> I want to tell you that
>Mr. Kanala is creating anti-Slovakian propaganda and with the
>shameless lies and posting like the last one here is trying to
>attract attention and steal your valuable time for his
>selfish personal vengeance.

I do not believe that...

>My professional advice

Professional? "Professionals" like you put Andrei Sakharov to mental hospital,
because his opinions were not liked by the communist regime. I assume that you
"earned" your questionable title during a communist regime, too..

>is to ignore any attention-seeker, like
>Mr.Kanala.  Sick individuals like him need treatment and lots
>of rest.  The best you can do is to ignore his self-advertisements
>and postings claiming his self-righteousness,
>which will hopefully help him overcome his sickness.

You forgot to end up your post by "Heil Hitler!"

>Kristina, B.A. Psych., Rehab. Cert.

>---------------------------------------------------------
>Roman Kanala ) wrote:
>: Dear fellow Netizen,
>:
>: [...lies deleted...]
>: This weekend, I will address some recent defamatory allegations of
>: Mr. Frajkor that will, as a side product, demonstrate his use of
>: the abovementioned tools.
>: The articles will appear in Slovak-L only and will not be crossposted
>: ...
>: Roman Kanala
>: 


Rosta

Mark...thanx for your note. If you wish to discuss religion etc.
(on a better forum) I would be willing if time permits. I agree
and thanx for being civil.
Peter Soltesz

At 07:08 PM 8/27/96 GMT, Kristina Szurek wrote:
>Dear fellow Netizen,
>
>To conclude this outrageous thread, I want to tell you that
>Mr. Kanala is creating anti-Slovakian propaganda and with the
>shameless lies and posting like the last one here is trying to
>attract attention and steal your valuable time for his
>selfish personal vengeance.
>
>My professional advice is to ignore any attention-seeker, like
>Mr.Kanala.  Sick individuals like him need treatment and lots
>of rest.  The best you can do is to ignore his self-advertisements
>and postings claiming his self-righteousness,
>which will hopefully help him overcome his sickness.
>
>Kristina, B.A. Psych., Rehab. Cert.

        I have known Roman Kanala for two and a half years since I first
signed up for a number of lists, including Slovak-L. Mr. Kanala is not
anti-Slovak. He happens to be a man of democratic convictions, and he is
against exaggerated nationalism, be it Slovak, Hungarian, Romanian, or any
other kind. Mr. Kanala has also a member of this list for a number of years.
He is, like many people among us, for peaceful coexistence of Slovaks and
Hungarians, as opposed to a fair number of people on the Slovak list who do
nothing else but try to create friction between Slovaks and Hungarians. This
is not the way to go. This is no good for either Slovaks or for Hungarians
and their integration into the European Union.

        I don't know Kristina Szurek but she reminds me of some people on
some other lists--they just happen to be Hungarians--who label everybody who
refuses to be a blind nationalist or chauvinist anti-this and anti-that
while they spew their venomous hatred, not even terribly desguised, of
western democratic traditions.

        As for Kristina's mention of her B.A. in psych doesn't have to do
anything whatsoever with the subject on hand. Unless she thinks that a
degree in psychology bolsters her claims as an analysis of Mr. Kanala's psyche.

        Eva Balogh

At 11:19 PM 8/27/96 -0400, Ferenc Novak wrote:

>This person apparently enjoys the attention he is getting as a result of his
>outrageous prose.  He may not realize the total lack of taste and decent
>breeding his writings demonstrate.  I feel that the best response to this
>type of writing is the use of the Page Down button -- which I will be using
>from now on whenever I see his name).  I would like to suggest the same to
>others as well.  Anyway, the topic has by now veered far from any Hungarian
>content.

Your prose demonstrates profound taste and impeccable breeding.  It also
shows that you're homophobic.  But take heart.  A lot of Hungarians still
are.  Not as many as I would have thought just a couple of years ago, but
still...

Your homophobia seems to be of the "sexual apartheid" variety.  Hence,
homosexual topics are not 'real' Hungarian topics.  Oh sure, it can be
mentioned once in a blue moon, but then it should be ghettoized and shoved
off into its own little corner somewhere.

Needless to say, I don't subscribe to your fears.  Or your breeding!!!

Joe Szalai

"You are all fundamentalists with a top dressing of science. That is why you
are the stupidest of conservatives and reactionists in politics and the most
bigoted of obstructionists in science itself. When it comes to getting a
move on you are all of the same opinion: stop it, flog it, hang it, dynamite
it, stamp it out."
                 George Bernard Shaw

>>
> Am I the only one who thinks that the level of discourse on this list has
> reached the gutter?  It seems to me that a lot of people permit themselves
> the use of language that is not normally used in civilized discourse between
> supposedly educated people.  The worst of a bad lot is a relative newcomer
> who, in addition of inundating the list with hundreds of lines of militant
> homosexual and anti-religious tirades, produces prose that would make a
> sailor blush.
>
> Of course I am referring to  who saw fit to write in
> HUNGARY #771:
>
> >denly??  God sure must hate him!> >
> >- Mark>
>
> This person apparently enjoys the attention he is getting as a result of his
> outrageous prose.  He may not realize the total lack of taste and decent
> breeding his writings demonstrate.  I feel that the best response to this
> type of writing is the use of the Page Down button -- which I will be using
> from now on whenever I see his name).  I would like to suggest the same to
> others as well.  Anyway, the topic has by now veered far from any Hungarian
> content.
>
> Ferenc
>
                      ************************
Ferenc!

Stop the charade!  I sent many civilized messages and responded to some fairly
rude comments.  Faszfej and other crude words I have learned from your Hungary
list!

And faszfej is a very suitable word for a god that indiscriminantly sends a
horrid, vile disease to kill all sorts of people. What do you call that sort of
god, 'Holy, loving Father?'

I am not a newcomer. I've read this list in silence for months am tired of
reading garbage from many on this list w/o responding! Often gutter language
is suitable for the gutter thoughts of others.  It's a language they can
understand.

I am defending a group of people often walked upon by others in the name of a
god. Don't you dare call that distasteful and indecent. More often than not,
I have been polite, answered questions with concrete details and examples.

Please do not insult Hungary and Hungarians by thinking that all they can
handle are talks on paprika, old Commies and gypsies!  Hungary is a bigger
country than you could ever imagine!  It even has homosexuals!

Please, if you are not mature enough to handle that, go and push the delete
button!

It's your loss,
Mark

PS:  Is the sarcastic remark "God sure must hate him" gutter language?  Grow
     up... and expand your vocabulary!  If you are so easily offended, maybe
     you should just get off the list yourself!

In >  (Ross
Hedvicek) writes:

  > Professional? "Professionals" like you put Andrei Sakharov to
  > mental hospital, because his opinions were not liked by the
  > communist regime. I assume that you  "earned" your questionable
  > title during a communist regime
     [Rest of the drivel deleted]

An unhustified cheap shot. Here you lost all your credibility.


  > You forgot to end up your post by "Heil Hitler!"

But you did not.

Dear Efischer,

I hope you didn't delete this, but

I found your responses regarding this issue very well expressed.

Thank you,
Mark

You're asking me what I think our government would need to do. RESIGN!
There is only a little problem with this: I can not see a single party or
coalition which would be apt to take over :-(. I don't know of any
individual who I would like to see as the president of the Republic.
And that is all very disappointing and sad. While this liberal-bolshevic
govt is in power, the best they could do is turn their back to IMF, WB
and similar financial blood-suckers, immediately start negotiations about
the country's debt (a very complex problem, but without rescheduling or
rather partial cancelling the country could do nothing else but suffocate).
I myself, am very much against the hungarian way of liberalism, cosmopolitism
and all that, but these are only my personal feelings. I know people here
whom I admire (on different grounds) who are liberals, don't want to talk
and all that, but these are only my personal feelings. I know people here
whom I admire (on different grounds) who are liberals, don't want to talk
about Trianon, the past achievements, upon which Hu's future should be built.
Let me just give you a simple example of what HUNGARY means to these
cosmopols.
You know, we had the mille-centennial anniversary last week. I (and many
others) think that such an anniversary is an important milestone
and by all means one of the biggest holydays (festives) of the country.
There was not a single community center, a theater, a monument, a new
bus line or swimming pool the nation could claim as having made especially
to commemorate the great event. The celebrations in Budapest and around the
country were vacant, and meaningless. The biggest event where tens of
thousands were expected has been cancelled... Just one more example: The
mayor of the capital (the liberal Demszky) organized an event on the
Roosevelt square. The evening news showed greek, bulgarian, slovak, and
and german folk-dancers. Not a single hungarian.  And I am not kidding.

<><><><><><><>

The above was sent as an observation by a professional person in Hungary.
Is anyone there listening? What heppened lately? Is this what Hungary has
become? I guess the way they feel there is nothing to clebrate!
Comments please.
Thanx,
Peter Soltesz

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Peter A. Soltesz wrote:
> govt is in power, the best they could do is turn their back to IMF, WB
> and similar financial blood-suckers, immediately start negotiations about
> the country's debt (a very complex problem, but without rescheduling or
> rather partial cancelling the country could do nothing else but suffocate).

 As Mencken already observed, every complex problem has a simple solution
- - which is wrong ;-<. Since those blood-suckers (what a fine phrase for
creditors from an alleged free-market advocate, incidentally ;-() would do
their best to punish debt defaulting to a degree that those who resort to
it can't come out better by refusing to pay, suffocation would be ensured
by your ostensive solution. As a matter of fact even what I consider idle
talk by people (who by strange coincidence tend to be those whose savings
and retirement payments are from a safe distance from the cataclism their
suggestion would cause) about the desirability of rescheduling the debt,
if taken any seriously, is likely to cause huge losses to the country in
the form of raised interest rates - note that a mere one percentage point
hike means 50 billion Ft extra burden - due to the shaken confidence in
Hungary as a debtor with excellent credit risk!

 --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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At 11:49 AM 8/28/96 -0400, Peter Soltesz submitted a letter from Hungary:

        I understand that most people are very unhappy with their lot in
Hungary today. Part of this disappointment stems from very high expectations
from the change of the political regime in 1990. As far as I see--based on
recent political writings--in the 1980s the living standards of Hungarians
began to drop as the era of existing socialism was coming to an end. The
abandonment of one-party dictatorship, the introduction of a democratic
multiparty system, and the hope of a change-over to market economy were
looked upon as some kind of economic salvation. No one was really
anticipating a further and even steeper drop in living standards. On the
contrary, there was the mistaken belief that within a few years Hungary will
be as well off as Austria. As one political observer said, the Hungarian
people were not really interested in democracy; they wanted to live better.
And instead, they live a great deal worse than six or seven years ago. And
even six or seven years ago they were unhappy with their economic lot.

        With this somewhat lengthy introduction, here are a few observations
on the letter. Let's take the very first sentence:

>You're asking me what I think our government would need to do. RESIGN!

        Only a man or woman who have absolutely no experience with the
workings of a parliamentary democracy could possibly suggest the above. Why
should the Horn government resign before its four-year term when new
elections will take place? In parliamentary democracies governments resign
only when there is a vote of non-confidence but not when some segments of
the population feels that, in general terms, the government is not doing a
very good job. I myself don't think that the Horn government is doing a very
good job, but the coalition commands an overwhelming majority in parliament
(around 75 percent) and unless the SZDSZ leaves the coalition, and the MSZP,
as a result, will have only slightly over %50 of the seats in parliament
there is a possibility that such a vote of no-confidence could take place.
As long as this coalition holds, the government will remain in power.

>There is only a little problem with this: I can not see a single party or
>coalition which would be apt to take over :-(.

        This is indeed quite a problem. The opposition parties today are
fragmented and weak and I don't see anyone, with the possible exception of
the leadership of the FIDESZ which could come up with a prime minister.

>I don't know of any
>individual who I would like to see as the president of the Republic.

        The person of the president is not terribly important in Hungary
because the office is mostly ceremonial. Moreover, even if Peter's friend
doesn't like the current president, Arpad Go:ncz, he belongs to the
minority. Seventy-five percent of the people like him very much.

>And that is all very disappointing and sad. While this liberal-bolshevic
>govt is in power, the best they could do is turn their back to IMF, WB
>and similar financial blood-suckers, immediately start negotiations about
>the country's debt (a very complex problem, but without rescheduling or
>rather partial cancelling the country could do nothing else but suffocate).

        Zoli Fekete already answered this part. Public memory is short
indeed. The International Monetary Fund and the World Bank have been
involved with extending credit to Hungary only in the last few years. It is
Hungary which is asking for these monies because due to the budget deficits
the country needs credit. The earlier "blood-suckers" were small investors
who invested their monies in Hungarian bonds floated by private banks.
Thanks to these particular blood suckers, the average Hungarian lived a
great deal better in the 70s and early 80s than he was entitled to. But now
the same average citizen doesn't want to pay back the blood-suckers and
claim that they have never had any benefit from these large loans. Only the
other "blood-suckers," the communist leadership became rich.

>I myself, am very much against the hungarian way of liberalism, cosmopolitism
>and all that, but these are only my personal feelings. I know people here
>whom I admire (on different grounds) who are liberals, don't want to talk
>and all that, but these are only my personal feelings. I know people here
>whom I admire (on different grounds) who are liberals, don't want to talk
>about Trianon, the past achievements, upon which Hu's future should be built.

        You may have noticed that in certain Hungarian minds liberalism and
cosmopolitanism are linked. Cosmopolitanism seems to be a code word for
former communists (internationalists they were, you know) and the Jews, who
simply have no real roots in the country!!!

>Let me just give you a simple example of what HUNGARY means to these
>cosmopols.
>You know, we had the mille-centennial anniversary last week. I (and many
>others) think that such an anniversary is an important milestone
>and by all means one of the biggest holydays (festives) of the country.
>There was not a single community center, a theater, a monument, a new
>bus line or swimming pool the nation could claim as having made especially
>to commemorate the great event. The celebrations in Budapest and around the
>country were vacant, and meaningless. The biggest event where tens of
>thousands were expected has been cancelled... Just one more example: The
>mayor of the capital (the liberal Demszky) organized an event on the
>Roosevelt square. The evening news showed greek, bulgarian, slovak, and
>and german folk-dancers. Not a single hungarian.  And I am not kidding.

        It would have been nice if the 1,100 anniversary could have been
celebrated with the same fanfare than the one a hundred years ago. But then
Hungary was quite well off. Budapest was a growing city, becoming a
metropolis. There were so many new public buildings that one can hardly
count them all. Practically the whole modern Budapest was born in those
days. Today, the situation is different economically. One ought to keep in
mind also that a millennium is somewhat of a more important date than a
millecentennial. I can't recall that Hungary was celebrating the 800 or
900-year anniversary of Arpad and his tribes arriving in the Pannonian
Basin. At the same time, this government is very inapt and certain segment
of the population is overly sensitive. They expect insults from everywhere.
For example, people watching the Olympics were terribly upset one evening
when the Hungarian anthem was left out of the TV news when a Hungarian gold
medalist was standing on the podium. As it turned out there was time
constraints. However, can you imagine NBC leaving out the American national
anthem? The national anthem was played full force and full length every time
there was an American gold medal. I don' know what would have happened if
NBC left out the anthem and played some other music instead because of time
constraints! Maybe nothing. Or, maybe the Americans would be upset too.
However, I can't imagine that they would think that this affair is a
deliberate insult from a liberal, cosmopolitan media on the American nation.
As, I am sure that it is not a deliberate insult on the Hungarian nation
either. My feeling is that this kind of occurrence is more the result of
laziness and stupidity. Or, let's take Peter's friend's example about Greek,
Bulgarian, Slovak and German folk dances being shown on TV and not the
Hungarian. Again, not an insult, just stupidity. Or at least that is what I
think. Surely, there were Hungarian folk dancers too, but somehow the stupid
TV people don't chose the right programs to show on national television.
They are lazy and dense. The same with the government. They left the
celebrations more or less to the city government of Budapest which was the
wrong thing to do in the first place, and second, the government instead of
allocating a more substantial amount of money, decided to rely on private
donations. The private donations were not forthcoming and the "organizers"
were not very good at organizing. Or even figuring out how much money was
forthcoming. Was this some kind of deliberate insult on the part of the
liberal Mr. Demszky? I doubt it. I think that it is the result of
incompetence. Incompetence everywhere from the city Budapest to the central
government. But I wish I could say: Yes, this is an incompetent lot; let's
see what the other political groups can do. I am afraid they were not more
competent than these guys. Often, in fact, they were the same guys. This is
what Hungary has to offer. This is what Hungary has become. And let's not
blame it on cosmopolitanism, liberalism, or anything else. Let's blame it on
forty years of work ethics during which period real all-and-all effort was
rarely required. They somehow the whole country managed somehow--not too
well, but somehow. And today this is no longer satisfactory.

        Eva Balogh

At 05:35 AM 8/27/96 -0400, Sam Stowe wrote:

>A Hungarian aside here: Granted that Hungarian culture has been graced
>with an extraordinary number of brilliant scientists, poets, composers,
>mathematicians, artists, writers, etc. -- what about the field of
>philosophy? We've heard much about Lukacs here recently, little of it
>offering much critical insight into his thought. Is Lukacs the best
>Hungary has to offer in the field of 20th Century philosophy? Who are some
>of the other major Hungarian philosophers of this century and where do
>they fit into the complex matrix of Continental philosophy?

        Hungary hasn't produced too many philosophers. I can't think of any
other than Lukacs.

        Eva Balogh

fsssssss......

At 01:58 PM 8/26/96 -0400, I wrote:

You get to stay comfy, and the well-off in Hungary get to be better-off.
And the rest are screwed.  But this isn't a new idea.  It's not a
revolutionary act.  It's an old reactionary idea, caused by some kind of
personal insecurity, and it's called greed.  But why stop lapping it up!
After all, you 'earned' it.

At 06:22 PM 8/26/96 -0700, Gabor D. Farkas responded:

>You bet I did. No one gave me anything.


Well!  Congratulations!  You're a self-made man.  Now I understand you're
resistance to social programmes, especially welfare.  Now I understand why
you referred to President Clinton as, "fellow socialist Clinton".

I'm a failure compared to you.  I'm defenitely not a self-made man.  Society
has given me lots throughout my life.  And I depend on it!  Why, there's no
way I could have built the social infrastructures, roads, buildings, and
most everything else I depend on to make a living.  Others gave that to me.
And now, I don't mind giving back.

Tell me, Gabor.  Do you hum Frank Sinatra's "My Way", much?

Joe Szalai

"In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the
universe."
                Carl Sagan

At 02:40 AM 8/27/96 GMT, Agnes Heringer wrote:

<snip>
>Unilingual Quebecers (ironically, now it is the French
>Canadians, because all the anglos and allos are going into immersion
>schools and are fully bi or trilingual) speaking French only have really
>no future in Canada outside Quebec.  I can see the unilingual Spanish
>speaking people have no great future in the US either.

And I suppose you can say that unilingual Magyars don't have a great future
in Romania or Slovakia.

Joe Szalai

At 08:15 PM 8/28/96 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:

>>You bet I did. No one gave me anything.

>Well!  Congratulations!  You're a self-made man.  Now I understand you're
>resistance to social programmes, especially welfare.  Now I understand why
>you referred to President Clinton as, "fellow socialist Clinton".
>
>I'm a failure compared to you.  I'm defenitely not a self-made man.  Society
>has given me lots throughout my life.  And I depend on it!  Why, there's no
>way I could have built the social infrastructures, roads, buildings, and
>most everything else I depend on to make a living.  Others gave that to me.
>And now, I don't mind giving back.

I think I am giving back plenty too. Infrastructure is being built all the
time, my taxes contribute to that.

>Tell me, Gabor.  Do you hum Frank Sinatra's "My Way", much?

No, I don't like Sinatra. From that generation I prefer Dean Martin,
"Everybody Loves Somebody Sometime".

But seriously, Joe, I don't consider that building infrastructure by
previous generations was welfare to them or to us. They did it because it
was needed and we do it because it is needed. Those who built it made money
on it.

Gabor D. Farkas

On 27 Aug 1996 19:08:41 GMT, Miss Kristina Szurek wrote the following
(I have deleted the quotation of my previous text, Miss Kristina Szurek
has omitted the key parts of it anyway) :

> Dear fellow Netizen,
>
> To conclude this outrageous thread, I want to tell you that
> Mr. Kanala is creating anti-Slovakian propaganda and with the
> shameless lies and posting like the last one here is trying to
> attract attention and steal your valuable time for his
> selfish personal vengeance.
>
> My professional advice is to ignore any attention-seeker, like
> Mr.Kanala.  Sick individuals like him need treatment and lots
> of rest.  The best you can do is to ignore his self-advertisements
> and postings claiming his self-righteousness,
> which will hopefully help him overcome his sickness.
>
> Kristina, B.A. Psych., Rehab. Cert.


On the contrary, it's only now that this thread is beginning.
But, at the first place, let's have a look at Miss Kristina Szurek.


First of all, Miss Kristina Szurek is neither a professional nor a
scholar. This girl just obtained (June 1996) a Bachelor degree in Child
psychology from York University and although she is not on the list
of students anymore, she still seems to enjoy her privilege of using her
E-mail account. She has absolutely no idea about scholar work, but
worse, as we see, she has not suceeded to get any fundaments of
professional deontology. This is a blatant a case of abuse, usurpation
and forgery and Miss Szurek will have to respond for that lack of
professional ethics. Let's wish her good luck in her job hunting,
the activity she is doing right now.

She states that I am creating "anti-Slovakian propaganda". How's this ?
I am regularly speaking about the situation in Slovakia. We who read
the newspapers know what the situation in the country is. When speaking
about, I always anchor my opinions on facts quoted from newspapers
articles that are left unedited. The worst anti-Slovakian propaganda is
the existence of people who, like Miss Kristina Szurek, display fascizoid
opinions, have recourse to deloyal and dirty methods and loudly claim to
be Slovaks.

Miss Kristina Szurek further says about some "shameless lies like the
last one here", but fails to precise what exactly she is calling under
these names. Omitting facts is symptomatic for propaganda.

Indeed, such kind of messages are regularly appearing on the Slovak-L
mailing list. Spreading racial and national hatred, national-hate based
harrassment and scene of various criminal acts are what Slovak-L mailing
list has become. All this is being done under the eyes and with a
participation of Mr. Frajkor, listowner of Slovak-L.

But there is worse. Mr. Frajkor has publicly approved some of these
reprehensible schemes of behaviour, has participated in them and even
initiated them. All that is freely available on the Net and everyone
can verify that statement of facts. As I have announced, my intention
is to publish a resume of that on the Slovak-L list.


But Miss Kristina Szurek goes even further. Concerning her
allegations like "attention-seeker", "sick person need treatment",
issued "as a professional", she will have to respond for them.


One single remark about "selfish personal vengeance". After Mr.
Joe Pannon crossposted one article of her (of 2 August 96) to
soc.culture.magyar, I have chosen to correct the image of Slovaks
and to address some of Miss Szurek's extremist allegations, which
carefully I quoted and marked as such, together with the list of my
factual objections (to keep this cross-posting short, only Miss
Szurek's text is quoted):

> As much as I hate dividing land and countries, and drawing borderlines,
> in today's day and age, one must establish ownership.  So just as much as
> I am responsible for the content of this message, because I am its owner,
> the Slovak Government is responsible for the running of their country.
...
> As I said before, I have nothing against the Hungarian minority
> living mostly in the southern part of Western Slovakia Region (na juhu
> Zapadoslovenskeho Kraja), I do object to this minority, or any minority
> in general in breaking laws, or attempting to take advantage of the
> system.  I fully support the Slovakian Government in their ways to
> pretoct themselves.
...
> Slovakia, or the other option is that Slovak-Hungarians are just
> loud-mouthed, give-them-a-helping-hand-and-they-grab-the-whole-arm,
> always-wanting-more type of people.
...
> I do not know what the Slovak government has up their sleves (I do not
> follow overseas politics too closely), but they should introduce more of
> those laws that strengthen and support Slovak nationalism and unity.
...


More of those laws that strengthen and support Slovak nationalism and
unity. Some of them already passed, like Law on State Language, Law on
New Territorial Organisation, some other are in preparation, like Law
on the Protection of the Republics and Law on the Death Penalty.


So, to resume:

Slovak-L is exactly like that. Mr. Frajkor, as a listowner, has publicly
welcomed Miss Szurek's original message and is participating, either as
a complice, or personally, in spreading national-oriented hate propaganda.

If this sample was not yet enough, despite all the low attacks and dirty
tricks I am subject to since a couple of days, despite all the attemps to
keep me busy, I confirm my intention to publish on the Slovak-L list a
compilate on the following topics:

Mr. Frajkor is using lies as a work tool.
Mr. Frajkor is approving hate-driven harrassment.
Mr. Frajkor is approving, participating in, or issuing himself
national-biased hatred statements, all that in a public forum.

Mr. Frajkor is currently an Associate Professor at the School of
Journalism, University of Carleton, Canada, a country where spreading
of national hatred is forbidden by the law.

Roman Kanala

On Sun Aug 25 12:22:53 EDT 1996 HUNGARY #770 Eva Balogh wrote:

>At 11:56 AM 8/24/96 -0400,Ferenc Novak wrote:
>
>>Eva Balogh can be excused for not knowing that in a communist armed force
it
>>is the political officer, not the nominal commander who is actually in
>>charge.
>
>        Eva Balogh doesn't have to be excused for her ignorance. Eva Balogh
>knows darn well what the situation was in the Hungarian Red Army in 1919.
>And it bears no resemblance to the description below:

Now, now, Eva, don't be so touchy.  Your reaction shows that you don't really
know the situation in communist armies.  No need to get upset, I said you can
be excused.  Only you mentioned ignorance.

>>His situation was akin to the Party secretary in civilian
>>enterprises (offices, factories, ministries, etc.)  His -- or occasionally,
>>her -- job was to make sure that the directives of the Party are carried
out
>>above all other considerations.  As the representative of the Party, s/he
>>could be a total ignoramus regarding the particular enterprise, yet
exercised
>>absolute control over policies and their execution.  No one serving under
>>such a setup would have any illusions about who is the real boss.
>
>        I would like to know where this above comes from. Is it possible
>that Frenc Novak takes the role of a party secretary from recent history and
>simply equates that role with the "political commissar" of 1919? Most
likely.

I am taking the role of a "political officer" (i.e. comissar) from recent
history.  And I am speaking from personal observation.  Sorry, Eva, in this I
am more knowledgeable than you.  But as I said before, you can be excused for
not knowing.  You probably didn't serve in a communist army.

>>So, under these circumstances we can -- as Csaba did -- venture to say that
>>Lukacs was (de facto) in charge of the unit in question.  It was obviously
>>his decision to set an example by decimating his troops.  Whether or not
one
>>can agree with the practice, the responsibility clearly lay with Lukacs.
>
>        Amazingly certain of these facts. But where does this knowledge come
>from? Certainly not from the documents Csaba Zoltani provided.

See above

>        Eva Balogh

Ferenc (ex-soldier)

EB to Szekely Zoli:

>        You claim that there is reason to celebrate in Hungary--pray, tell
>me, why? Perhaps a hundred years ago there was real reason to celebrate
>because the millennium happened to coincide with a prosperous and optimistic
>age. Today, there is darn little to celebrate. And, by the way, the
>longevity of nationhood by itself is no virtue.
>
>        Eva Balogh

The above is one of her silliest utterings.  Unless she has given up
celebrating her own birthdays on account of not being nearly as youthful,
attractive and healthy as she was a generation ago...