Goodness, folks!  How many versions are there of the Orszagh dictionaries?

Mine is from 1976, (seventh edition) and it comes in TWO volumes.  About
1100 pages each.

Martha


On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, Eva S. Balogh wrote:

> At 02:48 PM 7/6/96 GMT, Steve Scheer wrote:
> >I have owned
> >the dictitionary in question (all four big volumes of it)
> >for nearly thirty years, but have seldom if ever used
> >it, thinking it full of bizarre archaisms and strange
> >inaccuracies. (Your example of "little slyboots" is a
> >good case in point.) This has partly been due to the
> >way in which I acquired English: from TV, from movies,
> >from English and American literature, from Webster's,
> >and, last but not least, from Joe Sixpack . . . :-)
> >
>         I wonder which edition you have because mine which I purchased in
> 1968 (second edition) has only three volumes. Two volumes of
> English-Hungarian and one volume of Hungarian-English.
>
>         As for using the large Orszagh, I must admit I don't use it very
> often. Two years ago I purchased an ordinary Magay-Orszagh keziszotar--a
> medium-size one--which is easier to handle, less detailed, and it is easier
> to use when looking for a simple word. The last time I used my large Orszagh
> was when I was looking for the Hungarian equivalent of "physical therapy,
> physical therapist," because an American friend asked me to make inquiries
> about the state of the profession in Hungary. Mr. Orszagh's medium-size
> dictionary didn't have the word. The large one said: "fizikai terapia." So,
> I said to myself, that was simple; I didn't even need a dictionary for that!
> There was only one problem: it is not called "fizikai terapia" in Hungarian
> but "fizikoterapia," as my fellow Hungarians informed me. So much for the
> nagy Orszagh!
>
>         Eva Balogh
> '
>

Eva Balogh wrote, quoting me:

>At 04:37 AM 7/9/96 -0700, Tibor Benke wrote:
>
>
>>Instead my school life was made one living
>>hell, and I myself am suprised that I managed to retain a love of learning
>>dispite that.  You have James Fenimore Cooper, Mark Twain, Jules Verne,
>>Kipling, and the Author of _Egri Csillagok_, as well as Benedek Elek and
>>the Poets who tried to remedy the consequence of the atrocity committed on
>>the Hungarian people by the rulers who mercilessly stripped them of their
>>Pagan heritage, to thank for that.
>
>        Would you please enlighten us what you mean exactly by the above.
>But, please, briefly. Sam reminded you that Fabor-Beckerian
>style--incredibly long postings--is not appreciated around here.
>

As soon as someone enlightens (felhomajosit) regarding Fabor-Beckerian
style, or I manage to crawl to a suitable library and find out for my self,
I will try.  In the meantime, you might look in the FORUM archive for my
reply to NPA entitled (Koppany Megerdemelte) although it my have the
objectionable style.  Also you might meditate on the fate of Vazul.

I would like to see a CD-ROM about what I would need to know if I wanted to
be a Ta'ltos or a Rego~s.

I hope my style hasn't offended you.  It is pretty ironic: initially my
contributions were criticised for spelling mistakes, then for the lack of
factual content and now for obscure style.  I'd say I'm coming up in the
world.

Respectfuly,

Tibor Benke

In article >,
 says...
>Would you please enlighten us what you mean exactly by the above.
>But, please, briefly. Sam reminded you that Fabor-Beckerian
>style--incredibly long postings--is not appreciated around here.

This is bloody rich coming from you! Typically, you never miss a
chance to make a personal attack on anyone who doesn't agree with
you on some point. I recall some pretty long postings from your
"esteemed" self in the past, never mind the huge number in general
(but I don't hold it against you; just don't be so eager to slag
others off in your poisonous efforts to discredit them.)

--
George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
*** Acorn Archimedes..ARM Club * Commodore64..ICPUG * NW London CC ***

In article >, Tibor Benke
> writes:

>Basically, the problem would be trivial, if society quit confusing moral
>concepts with scientific ones.  Or to put it another way,  A.D.D. is the
>psychologized operationalization of what used to be called being 'bone
>lazy', that is, the brain finds it has less need for external stimulation
>and the person has less need for physical activity as well, when compared
>to the average.  If we treated this variation rationally, we could using
>established Skinnerian techniques, modify it sufficiently to get
acceptable
>behavior from the individual.  Instead my school life was made one living
>hell, and I myself am suprised that I managed to retain a love of
learning
>dispite that.  You have James Fenimore Cooper, Mark Twain, Jules Verne,
>Kipling, and the Author of _Egri Csillagok_, as well as Benedek Elek and
>the Poets who tried to remedy the consequence of the atrocity committed
on
>the Hungarian people by the rulers who mercilessly stripped them of their
>Pagan heritage, to thank for that.  My one shelter as a child was reading
>these books, inspite of dislexia, over and over, because if I was quietly
>reading, or seemed to be, I was left to be.
>
>I managed to struggle through grade and high school and graduate, with a
B-
>average.  I enterd college, to find that the whole thing was basically a
>fraud - these were the days when grading was by the bell curve and the
>consequence of low grades was being sent to Vietnam.  Few people were
>interested in knowledge for its own sake, and even most of those who
were,
>were really interested in intellectual one upmanship more than Truth or
>Beauty. Scams for beating the System were rampant, and most teachers,
>(tisztelet a kivetelnek) had your arrogant attitude.
>
>

Tibor, my hat is off to you. Not only are you a scam artist, you're
absolutely one of the most transparent I've ever seen. I have a great deal
of respect for anyone who is good at what they do in life. That you are
able to convince people like EF that there is something wrong with you
when it is apparent from your posts that there's nothing wrong with your
cognitive abilities is evidence of true genius.

By the way, I notice that you managed to post this magnum opus in record
time. I sent my post in at 7:30 a.m. or so here on the East Coast. I
checked my e-mail at 12:20 p.m. and you had already posted your lengthy
response. Your cognitive disability is, if anything, incredibly subtle.
Did you ever run a three-card monte stand?
Sam Stowe

"If Rose don't like the city life,
I think I'll take her home..."
 -- The Flatlanders (Joe Ely, Jimmie Dale Gilmore and Butch Hancock)

I'm looking for a book about the 1956 Hungarian Olympic water polo tean
called
"Medencek, golok, pofonok" by Dr Karpathy Gyorgy.
It's in Hungarian. (Does anyone have a copy of it? Can anyone tell me how
to get
hold of one? I've been told the book is in Hungarian, but I'd gladly like
to
hear about any other language version of the book, including English.)
 Please contact me at:

or


Also, I'm looking for any other reference material about the
Russian-Hungarian
game in the 1956 Olympics, which was held in November 1956 in
Melbourne,Australia. I'm looking for articles, books, magazines, etc.
Thank you very much.

I'm Rod Perlmutter, of Kansas City, MO., USA.

----I am forwarding this message--please do not reply directly to my
address.

Ted Perlmutter

The faculty club has become somewhat inured to Stowicism and usually
takes it with a rather large grain of salt.  New members can't know this,
however, and shouldn't be subject to well known bad tempers.  Thanks
for the reminder.

Tom Wukitsch
us-state.osis.gov

 wrote:

        Valoszinuleg osszekeversz valakivel. Az en cimem:
 es en voltam az, aki kimasolta ezt az interjut.

>"Furmann Imre: Azt jo dolognak tartom, hogy a forintleertekeles
>kiszamithato. Medgyessy Peter szakertelmeben nem ketelkedem, bar en most
>meg csak azt latom, hogy jobb politikus, mint Bokros Lajos, tehat jobban
>tudja eladni a dolgokat. De a magyarorszagi atalakulas igazi utja a
>Bokros-ut.
> "Orban Gyorgyi: Ez on szerint azt jelenti, hogy nagyobb
>aldozatvallalassal, de rovidebb uton alakitsuk at a tarsadalmat?
> "Furmann Imre: Pontosan. El kellene donteni, hogy egy hosszadalmas,
>kinlodo folyamatot vallalunk-e, amely kevesebb megrazkodtatassal jar,
>vagy pedig kovetkezetesen, kemenyen es rovidebb uton visszuk vegig a
>reformokat.
>Ha ugy tetszik, a sokkterapia hive vagyok, mert ha nem muszaj, ne
>kinlodjunk meg vagy tiz evig."
>
>________________________________________________
>
>Ez az "Antalli orokseg" az ilyen Furmann-ok.neMDF.
>Furmann = ember aki Fu'r, a kisebbsegi jogok bajnoka
>_________________________________________________

        Furmann Imre karrierjet nem ismerem es, hogy az igazat megvalljam
nem is tartom fontosnak. Amit mond azt ellenben fontosnak tartom, ugyanis en
szerintem is sokkal jobb lett volna, ha Magyarorszag a lengyelhez hasonlo
uton indult volna neki a rendszer es gazdasag megvaltoztatasahoz. Ma azt
hiszem jobban allna az orszag. Kulonben az "antalli orokseg" egy szot sem
szolt a sokkterapiarol. Sot, eppen az ellenkezojet akartak elerni. Hadd
idezzek egy regi ujsagcikket, amiben az Antall-kormany bejelenti gazdasagi
szandekait:

        "A kormanyprogram fontos celja, hogy a koztulajdon allamtalanitasa
es a privatizacio eredmenyekeppen a haromeves program vegere a magantulajdon
aranya elerje a vallalkozoi vagyon 30-35 szazalekat." (Magyar Hirlap, 1990
szeptember 26).

        En ebbol nem ugy veszem ki, hogy az "antalli orokseg" eppen a
sokkterapiara tette volna a hangsulyt.

        Balogh Eva

Sorry, I sent a Hungarian-language message intended for the Szalon
to Hungary by mistake. Please, ignore it.

        Eva Balogh

Is the Gundel restaurant still considered to be one of the finest in
Hungary?  Is it owned by George Lang, the author of "The Cuisine of
Hungary"?  Have any of you eaten there?  Would you recommend it?

Which is considered the best patisserie in Budapest, the Cafe New York or
the Gerbeaud?  I've been to both and I can't decide.

And one more question.  Is there any place in Budapest that serves North
American style salads?

Joe Szalai

In article >, Barnabas Bozoki
> writes:

>Professor Stowe is entitled to have his opinion about people with
>disability and about people who post without signing it with full name,
but
>I don't see why he has to declare it to the list in such an abusive
style.
>Is this the way the Faculty Club welcomes new members? I wonder, did he
>ever blast JELIKO for not signing his letters, or his disdain is reserved
>to those whose political views are different from his.
>
>Barna Bozoki

Barna, he hasn't proven that he has any discernible disability. And he has
followed the pattern of attacking other members of this list, then
claiming this disability in order to shield himself from retribution. His
buddy won't even post his/her/its real name, instead attacking list
members from behind a pseudonym. Yet you didn't raise hell when they did
this, did you? Perhaps it all depends on whose ox is being gored. Had
Tibor Benke posted the same things about you that he did Eva Balogh, my
response would have been the same. You either need to read the threads
more closely or stop responding with such hypocritical concern for my
"etiguette" while willfully overlooking the flagrant trespasses of those
who sparked it.
Sam Stowe

"If Rose don't like the city life,
I think I'll take her home..."
 -- The Flatlanders (Joe Ely, Jimmie Dale Gilmore and Butch Hancock)

In article >, Joe Szalai
> writes:

>Ah!  Yes!  The politics of simplicity plods on.
>
>Joe Szalai
>
>

Helped, in no small degree, by your own simplistic efforts.
Sam Stowe

"If Rose don't like the city life,
I think I'll take her home..."
 -- The Flatlanders (Joe Ely, Jimmie Dale Gilmore and Butch Hancock)

Mr. Stowe, among other things, wrote the following:

">> He's a con man and if
>>you've talked to him at all, you've either realized that immediately or
>>you're a moron. In your case, you're a nitwit as well as being a moron.

As this is going beyond the point of mere name calling and  approaching the
boundaries of libel, I am not going to not going to contribute to this
thread any longer.

Tibor Benke

mr. stowe:

>You are a liar and a bad one at that, in addition to being a coward. I can
>accordingly discount anything you might post in future on here.

you are in no position to thus judge the veracity of my posts. i must
assure you, i am in no way duplicitous.

> Tibor
>Benke's problem is that he is a deadbeat living in a country willing to
>use its tax dollars to support him.

mr. stowe, allow me to illuminate the somewhat darkened recesses of your brain:

i have met mr. benke, as i said; in fact i have met him on three or four
occassions. mr benke's nervous system quite inversely affected by MS. he
walks difficultly with a cane, and i do say, difficultly. he has to extend
considerable effort to remain active.

i am *well* acquainted with the debilitating circumstances of this
particular illness, as one of my good friends is now wheel-chair bound...
in fact, i have watched this person, once a nationally known dancer and
musician, lose his mobility and with it his career and much of what makes
life so pleasurable for us, you and me, mr. stowe, the fortunate. my friend
has faced his condition courageously. as has mr. benke.

mr. benke is not responsible for his illness. to find you insulting him
with accusations of "deadbeat"-ness is for me particularly odious.

and that is the truth of it. mr. stowe.

>thus He attacked Eva Balogh in personal
>terms in his first post, then tried to use his "condition" to avoid
>critical scrutiny of what he had to say.

ones physical and mental condition, nay, *conditioning*, is indeed to be
considered when evaluating presented data. none if us can be truly
objective, the concept *perspective* is by its nature biased. i cannot but
think that it would contribute greatly to ones understanding of anothers
data, if point-of-view were induced as a mediating factor. if mr. benke
chooses to illuminate the extant emotional and physical background to his
postings, he cannot be faulted for doing so. in fact, perhaps if more
people would allow themselves to be thus transparent, a more empathetic
mode of discourse may ensue.

the discourse on this, and other hungarian lists is heavily polarized to
one or another of merely two fundamental political agendae. this for me
presents some difficulty, as i am a person not given to such extreme
standpoints.

i wish there to be some mitigations of... kindness, mr. stowe.

but i am not holding my breath. human beings being as they are.

as to ms. balogh, in certain areas of expertise, she is indeed very
knowledgable. her posts on the subject of history easily incur my respect,
in fact i have learned a considerable amount by reading them. however, she
also has a habit of vigourous contribution to subjects of which she knows
less. and at that point, i feel no compunction whatsoever in arguing...
from my *own* areas of expertise, mr. stowe, i too have some. or, for that
matter, supporting the arguments of others, when the subject warrants is.
unfortunately, at those times,  ms. balogh has difficulty acceeding defeat
in debate, or to admit to no background in certain areas of experience.

such is life, mr. stowe, none of us are perfect. i myself suffer from a
great deal of impatience when faced with... ignorance, or intolerance. and
i do *so* hate spurrious accusations.

>I detest people who try to cloak
>their wrong-doings in the mantle of victimization. He's a con man and if
>you've talked to him at all, you've either realized that immediately or
>you're a moron. In your case, you're a nitwit as well as being a moron.

please enjoy whatever intellectial limitations you attribute me. i shall
not debate you in this fashion, mr. stowe. it is simply not worth my time.

regards
ef

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, Stowewrite wrote:

> Barna, he hasn't proven that he has any discernible disability. And he has
> followed the pattern of attacking other members of this list, then
> claiming this disability in order to shield himself from retribution. His
> buddy won't even post his/her/its real name, instead attacking list
> members from behind a pseudonym. Yet you didn't raise hell when they did
> this, did you?
>

No I did not, I tell you why. Professor Balogh do not need defending
from me or anybody else. She is more than capable of defending herself.
Besides, I did not read Benke's long posts, but I did read the "ef" letter
and did not find it objectionable like yours.

> You either need to read the threads
> more closely or stop responding with such hypocritical concern for my
> "etiguette" while willfully overlooking the flagrant trespasses of those
> who sparked it.

You did it again. You accusing me for of hypocrisy, "willfully" overlooking
things. What do you know about my sensitivities, and what I overlook and
why? I overlooked many distasteful posts from you in the past. For example,
your exchanges with Eva Durant comes to mind. Reading your posts remind me
a book I read long time ago called the "Ugly American". Your wit probably
quite entertaining to your friends, but to an outsider projects arrogance.

And please don't tell me what to post. If you read my post more careful,
you will notice that I did not tell you what to do. I would not waste time
trying to change your ways. I only wanted the list to know that not
everybody likes the type of rudeness and intolerance to other's views what
you display.

BTW, thank for pointing out my mistake in writing etiquette.

Barna Bozoki

Tibor Benke wrote:
>
> Mr. Stowe, among other things, wrote the following:
>
> ">> He's a con man and if
> >>you've talked to him at all, you've either realized that immediately or
> >>you're a moron. In your case, you're a nitwit as well as being a moron.
>
> As this is going beyond the point of mere name calling and  approaching the
> boundaries of libel, I am not going to not going to contribute to this
> thread any longer.
>
> Tibor Benke
>  are going to Miss You.Who will entertain us with such enourmou
s
 long
winded discussions.Please don't live this thread,please.What will you do now
with your free time?

In this request a gentleman asks for references.  He informed me that he
would welcome contributions from the realm of Hungarian literature, among
others.  (Both in Hungarian and translation, I believe.)

Please reply directly to him:

                Greg Eichler >


I'll be away until August.  Have a nice summer!
Martha


> =================================================

Forwarded message:


To: Multiple recipients of list FLTEACH >
Subject: Re: World Literature

Dear FLTeachers,

Muchisimas gracias for the toneladas of Spanish literature recommendations.
However, we would like more WORLD literature. Therefore, please be so kind to
send more recommendations for literatures in Chinese, French, German,
Italian, Japanese, Portuguese, Russian, etc.

Thanks to all of you who have responded so far.

Sincerely,

Greg Eichler

                Greg Eichler >

At 07:48 AM 7/10/96 -0400, Sam Stowe wrote in connection with Barna Bozoki's
taking exception to Sam's style concerning the writings of E. Fischer and
Tibor Benke. Barna Bozoki's last sentence was as follows:


>I wonder, did he
>>ever blast JELIKO for not signing his letters, or his disdain is reserved
>>to those whose political views are different from his.

        I find this rather amusing because I have noted that certain people
on this and on other lists read rather selectively and object also rather
selectively. If they agree with the person they applaud their styles
regardless how objectionable this style may be by any objective standard. A
good example for this would be E. Fischer.

        Elizabeth Fischer was personally attacked a few days ago on
soc.culture.magyar. She had commented on one of siliconvalley's phoneys who,
this time, tried to imitate a semi-illiterate Hungarian peasant. The
imitation was rather poor and Elizabeth Fischer said so. Her antagonist
reminded her that not long time ago Ms. Fischer herself claimed that her
Hungarian had become rather rusty and therefore, she is the last person to
comment on other people's style.

        I raised my voice against this attack which I didn't think was fair.
First of all, Ms. Fischer has been on the Hungarian-language Internet lists
for a long time and if a year or two ago her Hungarian was not up to snuff
it is most likely that at the moment it is just fine. My Hungarian, I added,
was rusty two and a half years ago and the last time I was in Hungary people
told me that no one could tell that I have lived abroad for forty years.

        So, I stood up for her! Did she stand up for me when Tibor Benke
attacked me and my professional competence? Oh, no, because what I read of
Ms. Elizabeth Fischer she and Mr. Benke are rather close when it comes to
political philosophy. Therefore, it is perfectly all right to make a
personal attack on Eva Balogh but it is not all right to sound skeptical
concerning Mr. Benke's multiple handicaps.

        Now comes the interesting twist. Barna Bozoki's political philosophy
is very far from that of Ms. Elizabeth Fischer and Tibor Benke--practically
the opposite end of the spectrum. He would be the first person to complain
about "political correctness" and yet, he comes out on the side of Tibor
Benke. He, just like Elizabeth Fischer, completely ignores the fact that
Tibor Benke made personal attacks and, to quote Sam Stowe

>he hasn't proven that he has any discernible disability. And he has
>followed the pattern of attacking other members of this list, then
>claiming this disability in order to shield himself from retribution.

        I might say it less forcefully than Sam, but I am very skeptical of
Mr. Benke's disabilities. He writes perfectly well in English and in
Hungarian. Admittedly in his last post he put in a few sp?'s and a
misspelled and mistranslated Hungarian word but if anyone takes the trouble
to check his Hungarian prose in Forum #2042 this doesn't ring true. The
first time I encountered Mr. Benke he only claimed multiple sclerosis, and
he had my full sympathy (if I recall that was on the Forum about two years
ago). By the time he got to HUNGARY, he was "cognitively challenged," and
his latest is that he also has "attention deficit disorder." Meanwhile I see
no obvious signs of his disabilities.

        Ms. Fischer claims that a person with such disabilities might see
connections we ordinary mortals can't. Mr. Benke seems to be certain that
our everyday cognition, the kind most people are familiar with, is actually
might not be the best way of thinking. Ordinary logic won't do and my humble
self who cannot claim any such disability actually less able to discern the
truth. May I suggest that this is far-fetched, if not baseless.

        If we make a statement (1) communism was caused by the excesses of
capitalism and claim (2) that there was a global capitalist economy in place
by 1917, but (3) only in Russia was "communism" successful, then according
to ordinary rational thinking it should be obvious that (1) cannot be true.
However, Mr. Benke, waiving his so-called disability in front of us, claims
that this kind of rational thinking is actually inferior cognition.

        Meanwhile political biases are so strong that an obviously faulty
statement on the origin of Russian communism receives immediate applause
from Joe Szalai and Eva Durant, regardless of its merit. The hypothesis that
the immediate cause of the the Russian revolution was war weariness is
widely accepted among historians, but our Joe Szalai, Tibor Benke, and Eva
Durant cannot possibly accept this historical hypothesis because, I guess,
their whole world view would crumble if it were true. After all, Eva Durant,
for example, refuses to admit that the European working class today lives
infinitely better than let's say 125 years ago. Again, because sacred cows
would have to be sacrificed.

        The last intriguing question: what is Barna Bozoki doing in the
company of Elizabeth Fischer, Joe Szalai, Tibor Benke, and Eva Durant?

        Eva Balogh




His
>buddy won't even post his/her/its real name, instead attacking list
>members from behind a pseudonym. Yet you didn't raise hell when they did
>this, did you? Perhaps it all depends on whose ox is being gored. Had
>Tibor Benke posted the same things about you that he did Eva Balogh, my
>response would have been the same. You either need to read the threads
>more closely or stop responding with such hypocritical concern for my
>"etiguette" while willfully overlooking the flagrant trespasses of those
>who sparked it.
>Sam Stowe
>
>"If Rose don't like the city life,
>I think I'll take her home..."
> -- The Flatlanders (Joe Ely, Jimmie Dale Gilmore and Butch Hancock)
>
>

At 10:16 PM 7/9/96 -0700, Tibor Benke wrote:

>As soon as someone enlightens (felhomajosit) regarding Fabor-Beckerian
>style, or I manage to crawl to a suitable library and find out for my self,
>I will try.

        You don't have to crawl to anywhere, especially not to a library.
Cecilia Fabos-Becker is a correspondent on this list. Her style is--how
shall I say--a bit on the verbose side. I trust "felhomajosit" was written
in jest with a little spelling error introduced in it.

>In the meantime, you might look in the FORUM archive for my
>reply to NPA entitled (Koppany Megerdemelte) although it my have the
>objectionable style.  Also you might meditate on the fate of Vazul.

        I don't have time to look at your old article in the archives--you
can summarize it briefly, I trust.


>I hope my style hasn't offended you.  It is pretty ironic: initially my
>contributions were criticised for spelling mistakes, then for the lack of
>factual content and now for obscure style.  I'd say I'm coming up in the
>world.

        I don't know whether obscurity is the right word--incomprehensible
would be closer. All that stuff about ta'ltos and rego"s and CD-ROMs.

        Eva Balogh

>
>Respectfuly,
>
>Tibor Benke

>
>

Sam Stowe is playing Mr. Amerika again.  He's accused a couple of writers on
this list of being conned by Tibor Benke.  Invariably, Sam will remind
people that Tibor Benke committed the mortal sin of a personal attack on Eva
Balogh.  What Sam loses sight of is that he's the one who's been conned.
That's right.  Sam has been conned by Eva Balogh.  He continues to view Eva
Balogh as a dispassioned academic.  Well, I can buy into the academic bit.
But dispassioned?  Not bloody likely!  Anyone who reads the other lists that
Eva Balogh writes to will easily see that when things are slow on this list,
Sam's 'dispassioned academic' is busy fighting and arguing on SCM, etc.  I
get the distinct feeling that she enjoys a punch-up as much as Sam.  And
there's nothing wrong with that per se.  What I have difficulty with is Mr.
Amerika's choice to throw punches from behind her hemline.

C'mon Sam.  Stop acting as if someone peed into your corn flakes.

Joe Szalai

"I am ... what I am".
   The Village People

Who wrote this?

Hi Everybody,

I just found a couple of quotes about self-chosen arrogance
and intolerant behavior toward some fellow citizens in the
society. You may guess who wrote these (some words are bolded
by me). And I promise I will work hard to guess who takes
messages like these much too serious in this discussion
group... Key will be posted soon.

"Withdrawal of tolerance from repressive movements before
they can become active, intolerance EVEN TOWARD THOUGHT,
OPINION AND WORD, and finally, intolerance in the opposite
direction, that is toward the self-styled conservatives, to
the political Right -- these ANTI-DEMOCRATIC notions respond
to the actual development of the democratic society. (...)
To be  sure, THIS IS CENSORSHIP, EVEN PRE-CENSORSHIP."

"The tolerance (...) will never be gift of the powers that
be; it can, under the prevailing conditions of tyranny by the
majority, only be won by the sustained effort of RADICAL
MINORITIES (...) -- minorities INTOLERANT, MILITANTLY
INTOLERANT and disobedient to the rules of behavior which
tolerate destruction and suppression."

Anyway, are discussion groups in the position to be able
to choose between tolerating or not tolerating "destruction
and suppression"?

Take care,                                      Sz. Zoli

At 03:03 PM 7/10/96 -0700, Eva Balogh wrote:

>        Meanwhile political biases are so strong that an obviously faulty
>statement on the origin of Russian communism receives immediate applause
>from Joe Szalai and Eva Durant, regardless of its merit.

This is pure fabrication.  Please show the readers of this List where I gave
my "immediate applause"?  I gave no applause whatsoever.  (Hey!  All you Eva
Balogh fans.  Watch her dodge my question.)

>The hypothesis that
>the immediate cause of the the Russian revolution was war weariness is
>widely accepted among historians, but our Joe Szalai, Tibor Benke, and Eva
>Durant cannot possibly accept this historical hypothesis because, I guess,
>their whole world view would crumble if it were true.

Don't lose any sleep over the possibility of my world view crumbling.  And
it's not me who cannot possibly accept the historical hypothesis.  Oh, I can
accept it as a hypothesis, alright.  It's you who cannot accept it.  The
problem is that you accept it not as a hypothesis, but as, "The Truth".  And
needless to say, that causes interpretive difficulties when studying
historical documents.

>        The last intriguing question: what is Barna Bozoki doing in the
>company of Elizabeth Fischer, Joe Szalai, Tibor Benke, and Eva Durant?

The list is growing.  Scary.

Joe Szalai

Joe Szalai wrote:

>>      The last intriguing question: what is Barna Bozoki doing in the
>>company of Elizabeth Fischer, Joe Szalai, Tibor Benke, and Eva Durant?

>The list is growing.  Scary.

Yeah, count me in! ;-)

NPA.