URL: <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/web>;
Version: 0.22
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: web
Posting-Frequency: every ten days
Archive-name: hungarian/web
Last-modified: 1996/10/27

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

     Hungarian electronic resources FAQ

3.      Interactive services
3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web

 The following is the chapter recently removed from the main body of
the hungarian-faq. This is not yet completely re-edited for stand-alone
format, nor completing a collection of all important links has been
attempted. For more comprehensive WWW directories see, for example:
<http://www.hungary.com/hudir/>;, <http://www.hungary.com/hudir/>; or
<http://www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/homepage.html>;.
 This version 0.2 contains some aditional links not shown in 0.1,=20
see the HTML listing appended near the end of this document!

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: 3. INTERACTIVE SERVICES

 If you are using Hungarian interactive services from abroad (or vice
versa): please note that interactive Internet connections like WWW
may be very slow, even timing out during peak hours - try times of
lower network load when the response time is usually reasonable.

- ------------------------------

Subject: 3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web

 This document you are reading now is hosted at
<http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq/web>;, and its directory
has a few other documents and several links to other sites of
interest.

 The Hungarian Home Page is at
<http://www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/homepage.html>; with links to the
registered Hungarian www servers, including

     - the Prime Minister's Office:  <http://www.meh.hu>; (overseas users
    please notice that the use of the <http://www.hungary.com/meh/>;
    mirror is requested to cut down transatlantic traffic!)

     - a weather forecast page (this is updated daily, and includes weather
    forecasts, meteorological maps, and METEOSAT satellite images; this
    page is in Hungarian)

     - home pages of Hungarian cities (currently Budapest, Debrecen,
    Miskolc, Pecs, Szeged), and of educational and other institutions=20

     - a comprehensive list of Hungarian telnet services (e.g. library=20
    databases), gopher and ftp sites (3.2). The content of almost all the=
=20
    Hungarian FTP sites is indexed and can be searched.

 The Hungary Online Directory (HUDIR) is at
<http://www.hungary.com/hudir/>; featuring a hierarchical
database of Hungarian online content worldwide. Currently it has links
in excess of 2500.

 HIX has a WWW server in the USA: the URL is <http://www.hix.com>;.
To check out fresh content, see <http://www.hix.com/friss2/>;, which
gives you a comprehensive table of content for new material arrived in
the last 24 hours (which is typically in the order of 100-150 pages).
Besides back issues of its email journals, and a plethora of other
files in Hungarian and English, it offers an on-line English-Hungarian,
Hungarian-English dictionary (<http://www.hix.com/hix/szotar/>; - its
European mirror is at <http://tpri6l.gsi.de/szotar.html>;), and various
home pages and pointers to other sources. Partial mirrors located in
Hungary are <http://www.eunet.hu/eunet/hix/>; (for the Magyar Narancs
archive), and <http://hal9000.elte.hu/hix/>; (for some pictures, and
searching the Radir database - see below).

 Hungary.Network - The GateWWWay to Hungary at
<http://www.hungary.com/>; has a number of government, commercial and
organizational users listed.

 TourInform is at <http://www.hungary.com/tourinform/>; is the service
of the Hungarian Tourism Service, the official promotion agency of the
Hungarian Tourist Board. They offer practical information, maps,
broshures and even tours on video casette.

 The Open Media Research Institute has a WWW server, available at
<http://www.omri.cz>;.  Available at this Web site are all back issues
of the Daily Digest, tables of contents for Transition, OMRI's
bi-weekly analytical journal, and information about OMRI's activities
and staff.

 The World Wide Web server of Central Europe Today is at the URL
<http://www.eunet.cz>;.

 Find back issues of the Hungary Report on the World Wide Web at=20
<http://www.yak.net/hungary-report/>; or <http://www.isys.hu/hol>;.=20
The Hungary-Online archive is available from=20
<http://www.yak.net/hungary-online/>; or <http://www.isys.hu/hrep>;=20
as well.

 There is a growing Hungarian resource directory at
<http://mineral.umd.edu/hir/>;. [The same server also hosts a
 "Hungarian Electronic Resources FAQ"<http://mineral.umd.edu/faq/>;.]

 There is a"Foreign Languages for Travellers"collection of essential
Hungarian expressions with English, German and French explanation,
complete with sound at
<http://insti.physics.sunysb.edu/~mmartin/languages/hungarian/hungarian.htm=
l>.

 The American Association of Young Hungarians (AAYH) has its homepage
at <http://www.aayh.org/>;.

 A Hungarian church in Chicago has info at
 <http://users.aol.com/MikeC16958/>;.

 The Gyorgy Bessenyei Teachers Training College (Nyiregyhaza) offers=20
some 3000 pages worth of database for Szabolcs-Szatmar-Bereg county=20
(Eastern Hungary) as well as other goodies and general Internet help,
in both Hungarian and English: <http://www.bgytf.hu/>;.

 See also section 2.3 above, which covers
<http://www.siliconvalley.com/>; and refers to other links as well.

 The following is a somewhat random working list, in HTML format,
of webpages of interest recently announced (which I haven't yet had
the time to check out or incorporate with further description):

<A HREF=3D"http://www.fsz.bme.hu/wn/">
 "What's new in Hungary?" =09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://users.deltanet.com/~kingavp/">
 "KINGA'S COOL HUNGARIAN LINKS" =09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://mason.gmu.edu/~achassel/index.html">
 "Historical Text Archive, Hungarian Images and Historical Background"> =09=
</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://members.aol.com/kfa4kuvasz/index.htm">
 "Kuvasz Fanciers of America" =09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.mkogy.hu/">
 "Magyar Orsz=E1ggy=FBl=E9si Hivatal" =09</A> <P>

<A HREF=3D"http://www.nepszabadsag.hu/">
 "Nepszabadsag Online"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.datanet.hu/szignum">
 "Szignum Media Hirlevel"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.enet.hu/clients/bohemelet/">
 "Bohemelet"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.hdsys.hu/">
 "Az Apple Computer Magyarorszagon"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://silicon.terra.vein.hu/sci/intro.html">
 "Utilapu Halozat - SCI Hungary"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.fornax.hu/napi/">
 "Napi Gazdasag On-Line"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.mhirlap.hu/">
 "Magyar Hirlap Ottlap"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.enet.hu/otherside">
 "Other Side Magazin"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.bdtf.hu/konyvtar/sup/sup.html">
 "A Savaria University Press Alapitvany honlapja"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://lingua.arts.klte.hu/summer/summer.htm">
 "Debrecen Summer School"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.eunet.hu/median/ifered.html">
 "Az elso magyar online internet-felmeres eredmenyei"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.enet.hu/jozsefattila">
 "Jozsef Attila"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://WWW.iSYS.hu/remindme">
 "RemindMe"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://WWW.iSYS.hu/nevnap/">
 "Nevnap Emlekezteto"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://WWW.iSYS.hu/nameday/">
 "Nameday Reminder"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.datanet.hu/primpress">
 "Ujsag"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.datanet.hu/artnet/beauty/index">
 "Virtualis Vilagszepe Valasztas 1996"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.fornax.hu/fmon/valuta/index.html">
 "Valuta arfolyamok"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.fornax.hu/fmon/commod/batmenu.html">
 "Budapesti Arutozsde napi statisztika"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.idg.hu/expo">
 "Internet Expo Hungarian Pavilion"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.idg.hu/internetto/friss/netinform/">
 "iNteRNeTTo, Budapest"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.kossuth.enet.hu/">
 "Kossuth Radio"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://year1100.iif.hu/">
 "Millecentenariumi rendezvenyek programfuzete"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.datanet.hu/szfold/szfold.htm">
 "Szabad Fold hetilap"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.sch.bme.hu/~steve/e-mail.html">
 "Kapcsolattartas e-mail utjan az Interneten"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.starkingnet.hu/bcc/internet_piac/">
 "interNET PIAC"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.enet.hu/bpweek">
 "Budapest Week"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.spiderweb.hu/jurix/jurix.html">
 "Jurix jogszabalygyujtemeny a halon"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iqsoft.hu/pages/h_hmj.html">
 "HMJ - Magyar Gazdasagi Jogszabalyok Haromnyelvu gyujtemenye"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.inf.bme.hu/esatt_indis/docs_hu/rtdhun/hmj_e.html">
 "HMJ - Hungarian Economic Rules of Law"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.tiszanet.hu/mszp/">
 "MSZP Szeged"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.htbt.hu/">
 "H.T.BT. Honlap"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.mav.hu/">
 "A MAV Rt. www szervere"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.mav.hu/">
 "Hungarian State Railways Co."=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.mek.iif.hu/">
 "Magyar Elektronikus Konyvtar (Web felulettel)"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.uni-miskolc.hu:8080/SZOTAR">
 "Angol-magyar, magyar-angol szotar"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.ikm.hu/">
 "Ipari, Kereskedelmi es Idegenforgalmi Miniszterium"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.bankonekt.hu/translat/mfe.htm">
 "Magyarorszagi Forditoirodak Egyesulete"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.bankonekt.hu/translat/mfe.htm">
 "Association of Hungarian Translation Companies"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.InterWare.hu/">
 "Szolgaltatasok az InterWare-nel"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.InterWare.hu/index.us.html">
 "Services at InterWare"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.enet.hu/emiquint/">
 "EMI Quint"=09</A> <P>
<A HREF=3D"http://emc.elte.hu/~ve/index.html">
 "Vilagegyetem - Egyetemistak es foiskolasok ketheti lapja"=09</A> <P>

- ------------------------------

 This work as a collection is copyright (1990-96) Zoli Fekete, and
parts are copyright of their respective authors. Please do not
redistribute substantial portions without contacting the maintainer.
 Since February 14, 1996 this document is authenticated=20
by my secure public-key encrypted electronic signature=20
(see <http://www.ifi.uio.no/pgp>; for details),=20
 the public key for which is shown in the WWW link=20
<http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/pgp-key.asc>;=20
and is also attached to the end of the text available via
 'finger '!
 Unauthorized publishing in off-line media - such as printed, CD-ROM or=20
magnetic databases - is explicitly prohibited! =20

URL: <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/web>;
Version: 0.2
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: web
Posting-Frequency: every ten days
Archive-name: hungarian/web
Last-modified: 1996/10/26

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '>=20

SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

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Archive-name: hungarian/broadcast
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: broadcast
Last-modified: 1996/06/29
Version: 0.82
Posting-Frequency: every twenty days

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 Many thanks go to Andy Vadasz and Peter Soltesz, who compiled much of
the information shown here. This file is being maintained at the
archive <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/HU-broadcast.txt>;. A similar
compendium is also available from the HAL archives
<ftp://mineral.umd.edu/pub/hungary/docs/North_Am_Hun_Language_Broadcasts>
<http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/ftp/docs/North_Am_Hun_Language_Broadcasts>;,
with more related material under <http://mineral.umd.edu/hir/Entertainment/>;.

 The programme by the Radio Petofi is available real-time simulcast via
the Internet (the first such national broadcast according to them):
<http://www.petofi.enet.hu/reala.html>; (note that this adress is at
'enet.hu', signifying E-NET, which is distinct from 'eunet.hu' where
some other resources are to be found). That page has all the
information needed to get the sofware handling the 'realaudio' format,
or one can go straight to the source at <http://www.realaudio.com>;.

 Realaudio format recorded broadcast segments for some HungarianRadio
programmes are available thru <http://www.wrn.org/stations/hungary.html>;. 
The homepage for Radio Budapest (the external service of Hungarian
Radio) is at <http://www.eunet.hu/radio/>; - they have a lot of textual
information, including schedules and frequency tables for worldwide
broadcast.

 Computer-readable Hungarian language broadcast material from the Voice
of America is found under <http://www.voa.gov/programs/audio/>;; they
have other computer audio file formats for download beside realaudio as
well.

 Here is a listing of Hungarian language broadcasts (as of 28 May
1996), collected by Peter Soltesz <mailto:>.
Note that the Hungarian language broadcast of the Radio Free Europe
(which was shown in the original version I posted) has been
discontinued sometime in '95! Also, the Voice of America beam is
transmitted from outside America and can't be received there (despite
the earlier listing showing them with their nominal Washington, D.C.
location). However their Web server makes computer-readable recordings
available, as shown in the paragraph above.  I dropped the VOA entries
from here - for the full schedules see
<gopher://gopher.voa.gov/00/voa-sked/hungarian-pgms> and for all the
frequencies <gopher://gopher.voa.gov/00/voa-sked/langs-and-freqs>
(these files can be accessed thru <http://www.voa.gov>; as well as from
<ftp://ftp.voa.gov/>).

<<< Text version of database file follows: >>>
  ID, Type, FREQ, City, ST, PROG, DAY, Time, Address, Tel, Fax 
 KTYM , AM ,, INGLEWOOD , CA ,1,,,,,
 WVOF , FM ,, FAIRFIELD , CT ,2,,,,,
 WNDU , AM ,, SOUTH BEND , IN ,1,,,,,
 WSBT , AM ,, SOUTH BEND , IN ,1,,,,,
 WRSU , FM ,, NEW BRUNSWICK , NJ ,1,,,,,
 WCSB , FM ,, CLEVELAND , OH ,1,,,,,
 WKTX , AM ,, CORTLAND , OH ,12,,,,,
 WKTL , FM ,, STRUTHERS , OH ,1,,,,,
 WELW , AM ,, WILLOUGHBY-EASTLAKE , OH ,1,,,,,
 WIBF , FM ,, JENKINTOWN , PA ,1,,,,,
 WMZK , AM , 680 , DETROIT , MI ,1, FRI , 2100-2200 ,,,
 WNYE , TV , 25 , NEW YORK , NY ,0.5, SAT , 1500-1530 ,,,
 TCI , CABLE ,, WESTCHESTER County , NY ,,,,,,
      , AM , 1380 , NEW YORK , NY ,1, SUN , 1200-1300 ,,,
 WQRP , FM ,, DAYTON , OH ,3, SUN , 0900-1200 ,,,
 WNVC , TV , 56 , FALLS CHURCH , VA ,0.5, SAT , 0800-0830 ,, 1-703-698-9682 ,
 CKJS , AM , 810 , WINNIPEG, MANITOBA , CN ,0.5, SAT , 2000-2030 ,, 1-204-477-1
221 ,
      , FM , 105.9 , NEW YORK , NY ,2, SUN , 1200-1400 ,,,
      , SW , 25 m ,, PA ,0.25, TH , 1645-1700 ,,,
 TELSTAR , SAT , 22 ,, NA ,,,,,,
 GALAXY-4 , SAT , 23 ,, NA ,0.5, M-F , 1930-200 ,,,
 GALAXY-4 , SAT , 23 ,, NA ,0.5, SAT , 1730-1800 ,,,
 ASC-1 , SAT , 23 ,, NA ,0,,,,,
 VATICANA , SW ,,, IT ,0,,,,,
 CBN , SAT ,,, NA ,0,,,,,
 CBC , SW ,, TORONTO , CD ,,,,,,
 BBC , SW ,, LONDON , UK ,,,,,,
     , SW , 3250 , BIRMINGHAM , AL ,1, D , 0700-0755 ,,,
          ,, 830 , CLEVELAND , OH ,,,,,,
 MAGYAR RA. , SW , VARIES , BUDAPEST , HU ,0, D ,,,,
 BUDAPEST , SW , VARIES , BUDAPEST , HU ,0, D ,,,,
 DEUTSCHE W , SW ,,, GE ,0,,,,,
 WCPN , FM , 90.3 , CLEVELAND , OH ,1,,,,,

<<< end of database listing >>>

 Andy Vadasz <mailto:> posted the following:
+In a May 14 message, I reported (in part):
+
+> their current 9870 kHz will change to 9840 kHz starting May.21. Not clear
+>whether the change is for the entire 3 hour transmission (including
+>Hungarian and English language programs). 
+
+More recently the new arrangement has been posted on the "Radio Budapest"
+webpage: http://www.eunet.hu/radio/   To summarize. the North America beam
+is broadcast on 9840 and 11870 kHz with the following breakdown
+
+Starting time (UTC)     Language    Beam orientation
+00:00                   Hungarian    N.America East
+01:00                   English      N.America East
+01:30                   Hungarian    N.America West
+02:30                   English      N.America West
+
+In my area (Northern Virginia) the first two segments have been fair to good
+on 9840 kHz.

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

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In article >,  says...

:----------------------------------------------------------
:   "paradox" 12/27/96 >
:
:   ..... In about every language there are certain sounds
:   that are universally shared. They are mostly related to
:   immediate family, basic survival level things that
:   surround you... To give a few examples: tomato, potato,
:   lemon, pilot, motor, yat, etc....:)))))
:----------------------------------------------------------
:
:Don't you think P. Kaya raised any points as "valid" as this
:one...? I may give you a dollar if you can find them...

this is a parody (NB the smiley) of langauge comparisions without
regard to historical data, and hence is a good point.


:> I have given sufficient information for people to find the
:> book. I can even tell you it is found in most major turkish
:> university libraries.
:
:And who do you think will go all the way to Turkey to find
:that book, to follow up on this very important "lead" from
:you...? Especially considering that you yourself made the
:comment that "You were not about to make a trip to Turkey
:just for that"...?

would giving the author's name made things different. people
in turkey read this thread. if they have any doubts they could
find the book (in ODTU and Bogazici it is located in the reference 
section). what you are doing is demagogry, not scholarly debate.

:
:But let me tell all the readers, who are not about to make
:a trip to Turkey just to find this book, that what he says
:in his book is correct... You may judge his work just as an
:"attempt" but he did indeed show that those kurdish-persian
:cognates were just that... 

no, the claim is not that they have arisen out of the
historic relationship of kurdish and persian but 
loanwords of a very recent date (during ottoman times).
I also remember a reference to the "kart kurt" (onomatopic)
origin of the word "kurd" in the book. such propaganda was
familiar to anyone who knows turkey of the 80's.
 
:
:>> In the past, whenever I expressed my opinion about Turkish
:>> (admittedly), you labeled it as "linguistic nationalism"...
:>
:> I have explained what is meant by it in this thread as well.
:> it means the movement to purge a language of what are deemed
:> "foreign" words.
:
:One can want that for reasons other than nationalism, but

it is a nationalsitic atitude in a certain sphere.

:it doesn't seem to matter against your obcession with
:"anti-nationalism". 
:
:I'm not an advocate of "one language world". I see different
:languages as different flavors of the humanity. I don't want
:to lengthen the subject, but shortly, I believe that languages
:should be protected from becoming complete gumbo soups.
:

such hostility to loanwords is what is reffered to as "linguistic
nationalism".

:Western and Arabic/Persian loan words and constructs are
:destructive to Turkish which is of a very different langage
:family. If this view of mine is nationalism to you, so be
:it then...
:

I repeat what I just said. considering your views on other
subjects, if you are not a nationalist, I wonder who is.

:>> subject of creating one "Sun-Kurdish Language" out of many
:>> mutually unintelligible "*dialects*" (as you call them) in
:>
:> ....... if you are interested, there is a thread in sci.lang
:> about the distinction between dialects and languages and what
:> is meant by "mutual intelligibility".
:
:I have been reading those "high linguistic content" articles
:about "Kurdish language", crossposted to umpteen newsgroups...
:

no, the articles I reffer to don't talk specifically about kurdish.

:I have seen in some of them (as in other articles in the past)
:that the speakers of those different "Kurdish *dialects*" admit
:themselves that they don't understand each other... What more
:do I need to hear...?

what many kurds say is a balanced view on the subject, hence
I don't have anything to add. (I'm not repeating the details,
since this is an entirely different subject).

I repeat the observations of someone on another thread that
you are not sincere in having a scholarly debate. you try to
deny anything that you feel puts turks or turkey in a bad light.
it is not my intention to put turks or turkish citizens in 
bad light. it is the advocates of chauvinist discourse in the name
of turks or turkey that do that. turks who dissassociate themselves
from this will do turks and turkish citizens a favor.

I've just seen the film and was quite impressed with it, including
Madonna's acting.  I wonder if they're showing it already in Hungary.
From those of you who have seen the movie and are more intimately
familiar with Budapest locations than I am, I'd like you to tell me
what shooting locations can be identified in the film.  For me several
scenes looked familiar, but could not be sure of their exact location.
The aula where Evita was laying in state ("ahol fel volt ravatalozva")
also looked like the aula of one of the Budapest universities.  Perhaps
of that of BME?

Thanks,
Joe

Dear friends:

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Europe for you,
friends living in U.S.A:


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And finally the best new is that this great product is available in US
market today.
Just see WEB page and then make order.             

Best regards,

Premysl Pech

In > Cluster User wrote:

>In >  says...
>
>> between those words... I do however, feel entitled to
>> argue to the extent of challenging some people's claims
>> that they could find as many similarities between
>> Sumerian and some other languages they mentioned. This
>> is of course a relative argument. The said list may not
>> good enough, but the fact is, those people have not yet
>                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>been able to provide a list "even as bad as that one":)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> between Sumerian and other languages they mentioned...
>
> it is a tedious effort, especially if you have standards.
> the fact that an alternative has not appeared in USENET
> doesn't prove anything. 

But, this is besides my point. I had stated (above) that
my argument was a "relative" one and was made specificly
against certain people's arrogant and empty claims...

I could expect others to miss my point, but not you who
has been debating with me regularly for quite a while...

The guy had made sure he ended his alternative languages
list with "Kurdish" and a smiley... Later he didn't miss
the opportunity to talk about Turks calling some people
Kurds because of the "kart kurt" sounds they made in the
snow, some "scientific" study by an "official scientist"
or some garbage along those lines...

To me, he just seemed too eager to grab the opportunity
to blow some hot air. Thus, I challenged him to provide
an alternative list, with his own choice of arternative
languages, and asked him to name which official Turkish
scientist and study (or whatever it was) he was talking
about...

Unless I somehow missed them, I haven't seen a response
to those requests yet. Of course, this doesn't make the
Sumerian-Ural/Altaic list more than what it is. But, it
sure "*does prove*" that among the participants of this
thread, and specificly the ones who brought it up, have
thus far been unable to offer any alternative list...

Why not stop trying to read between the lines, and take
this for what it is...?

MK

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In article >, 
' says...
>Just in case:
>1997-98 DIVERSITY VISA LOTTERY

Kudos. Nice move. You just undercut MACKO's price gouging.
Free speech for free.
Fee speech for . . .

[ Article reposted from soc.culture.nordic ]
[ Author was Jarmo Ryyti > ]
[ Posted on 20 Jan 1997 14:17:16 +0200 ]

I try to translate this from Ruijan Kaiku, 10th of January,1997.

"When you arrive from Norway to Finland in the north, there 
is a signbord with the text: Suomi,Finland,Suopma.

In Swedish-Finnish border there is on Finland's side signbords
with the text Ruotsi,Sverige. In the signbords on Finnish
side the texts are written in Finnish,Swedish and Saami.

The Finnish speaking Norwegians find it strange that on
the Norwegian side of the border the signbords have
texts only in Norwegian. Not a single having Finnish text.
Allthought the Kvens are a historical minority of Norway
their language is not seen nowhere in public."
............................................................


A comment about the Finnish-Swedish border when arriving
from Tornio (Finland) to Haaparanta (Sweden) people
are welcomed only in Swedish and English. Not in Finnish
language allthought the visitors are mainly Finns. 

The twin city Tornio-Haaparanta is called "Euro-city" 
in ourdays but still there is not that much tolerance 
on the Swedish side that Finnish language was tolerated 
in a public use for instance in public announcements, 
in the welcome signs erected by the local Swedish 
authorities etc.

Old prejudicies live firm in the Swedish side against
the use of Finnish language in public.

It will be interesting whether the European Union
is able to affect on these old practises and 
intra-nordic "order of things."

regards,
jami
-- 
#In 1958,The Swedish School Administration repealed directives banning#
 # the speaking of Finnish language in Sweden's schools.However,some #
       # municipalities maintained restrictions until 1968 #





















-- 
#In 1958,The Swedish School Administration repealed directives banning#
 # the speaking of Finnish language in Sweden's schools.However,some #
       # municipalities maintained restrictions until 1968 #