On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Ferenc Novak wrote:

> (I heard the recording in 1989 and would appreciate any information
> pertaining
> to its availability either on tape or on the Internet.)
>

I don't know about tape recording, or internet access, but I have a book,
entitled "1956 -- A magyar forradalom es szabadsagharc a hazai radioadasok
tukreben." (Transcripts of Radio Broadcast during the Hungarian Revolution
and Feedomfight -- October 23 - November 9, 1956) First published in 1957
by the Free Europe Committee. It has the text of Cardinal Mindszenty's
radio proclamation to the nation, read by him on November 3, 1956 at 8 pm.

I re-read the speech again, and there is no reference of him claiming back
anything. I think the following passage was misunderstood. It is not clear
in spite the fact that he called it so.

    "Mint a magyar romai katolikus egyhaz feje viszont kijelentem, hogy
amint azt a puspoki kar 1945-ben kozos korlevelben jelentette, hogy nem
helyezkedunk szembe a tortenelmi haladas igazolt iranyaval, sot az
egeszseges fejlodest mindenben elomozditjuk. Ha azt a magyar nep
termeszetesnek talalja, nagy multu es nagy erteku intezmenyeinkrol
gondoskodnunk kell. [...]"

(As a head of the Hungarian Roman Catholic Church I declare, as the
Committee of Bishops did in their 1945 letter to the parishes, we are not
against any historically justified progress, in fact we fully support a
healthy evolution. If it is agreeable with the Hungarian population, we
intend protect our great traditional and valuable institutions. [...])

    "A nemzethez intezet mostani szozatom mas reszletekre tudatosan nem
terjed ki, mert amit mondottam vilagos and eleg. [...]

(My present proclamation to the nation is not intended to go into details,
because what I said is sufficient and clear. [...])

I hope this helps.

Barna Bozoki

On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, George Antony wrote:

<<<snip>>>>
> HUNGARY RATED SAFE FOR INVESTMENT [Sept. 10]: A survey by
>   DRI/McGraw-Hill, a division of the credit rating agency Standard &
>   Poor's, found that Hungary is one of the world's safest countries to
>   invest in, with regard to the danger of the state limiting foreign
>   investments. The chance of central interference in the private sector
>   was rated at 5% for Hungary, the third best level, on a par with
>   states like the US, Switzerland, Australia and Japan as well as most
>   countries of the European Union. The risk is even less, 3%, in the
>   Czech Republic, Poland and Slovenia. The agency added that the
>   difference is marginal, as only rates above 10% present actual danger
>   to investors.
> (Source: Hungary Report 2.13)
>
> So, it would appear that Hungary is indeed perceived worse than other ex-
> communist countries from the point of view of potential government
> intervention.
>
++++ This is really quite meaningless. If you look at the rating firms
you will still see that Hungary's credit worthy rating is still Bb1 -- a
rather poor showing! The likelyhood of getting your money back from oyur
investment is what is rated.
Peter Soltesz

Eva Balogh writes:

>         Well, that may happen anyway: meaning shuting down the operation.
> But if the plant had been sold the state treasury would have gotten a few
> billion dollars for it while this way it will just die on its own accord
> without any compensation whatsoever.

 I think you are dreaming if you think that anybody "would have gotten a few
billion dollars for it". It was never worth that much. A few years back I was
looking at some aspects of it for a consortium to see if it could produce
competitively for western markets. The plant could not even meet the minimum
safety and health, not talking about the pollution control requirements of
the day. It was an outdated plant even in the early 90s.

By the way, in Russia today you are more likely to see second hand
(non-Ikarus) buses from western Eourope which display even the ads from the
western countries. I have seen many from Holland with the ads in Dutch. Thus
the Russians are better off with the second hand buses, than either repairs
of new buses from Ikarus.

Regards,Jeliko.

In article <v01540b00ae4f812684b8@[198.168.48.38]>, "Peter I. Hidas"
> writes
>At 5:13 PM 8/31/96, Jason W. Miller wrote:
>>I am writing a paper on striving for democracy in Hungary.  I would
>>really like some help as I cannot find any sources for the electoral
>>system in Hungary or the political culture....I would appreciate any
>>insight you could give me on the state of the democracy in Hungary and
>>what you think about it...please mail me at
 you.
>>
>>--
>>
>>*************************************************************************
>>*       Jason W. Miller                 International Studies           *
>>         *
>>*       215 Bek Hall                                                    *
>>*       Grand Forks, North Dakota  58202-2001                           *
>>*       (701) 777-8459                                                  *
>>*
>>*        "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil
>>*        is for good men to do nothing."                                *
>>*                                         -- Edmund Burke
>>*                * *
>>                 *
>>*************************************************************************
>Try
>
>http://www.hungary.com/
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Peter I. Hidas
>
>Hungarian Studies
>Department Of Russian and Slavic Studies
>McGill University
>Montreal, Quebec, Canada


Also, try www.hix.com/hungarian-faq or www.meh.hu (Hungarian Prime Minister's
office -- I haven't been successful with this one yet, perhaps you will be).
Also, Hungarian news articles can apparently be found at
www.siliconvally.com/ne
mzet.html.  These are mostly in Hungarian, with some English.  Again, haven't
tried it yet as I just came across it today.

For P.Hidas, I am ashamed to say that I spent 4 years at McGill Faculty of Law
and never knew there was a Hungarian Studies section just down the street!  I
am
doing a thesis on corportate criminal responsibility, focussing on Hungary and
Central/Eastern Europe (spent 2 years working as a corporate lawyer in
Budapest).  I would be interested in discussing it if you have any insight.

Karen Dunn Skinner
Grad Student, Law Department
London School of Economics

In article >, Zoltan Szekely
> writes:

>She was critical about the Marxism but she also rejected capitalism.
>Now, undereducated Yankee bullie-boys used to condemn this kind of
>position as "third way" advocacy. Especially, if they don't know
>nothing about the European culture, the French culture.


Other major exponents of the "third way" included Hitler, Szalasi, Pol Pot
and the leaders of Sendero Luminoso and Tupac Amaru. Strange how that
third way always seems to take a detour through a blood bath. And it's
"don't know anything," Zoltan, not "don't know nothing." In your case, the
proper phrase is "don't know diddly."

>
>(What is funny about Sam, for example, is that he himself boasted
>that his image of the French culture is greatly influenced by the
>personal rudeness of some Parisians toward tourists.)

That's not what I said. I said my impression of French culture had been
influenced by what I witnessed while there. Among other things, I watched
a group of flics beat the shinola out of two elderly North African men
sitting on a sidewalk selling trinkets. After clubbing the two men for
well over a minute, they hauled them to a van and threw them in the back.
And they were laughing the whole time. The Parisians who witnessed it just
kept right on going about their business. This is a culture that has
anything to teach me? I don't think so, Tim.
>
>What is the major problem of Simone with the capitalism? As she
>says, the trouble is with the people, the human beings who are "at
>the disposal of the machine". In another word, the trouble is that
>human people (the workers) are under the power of machines. People
>who are made by God, people who should have divine grace and human
>dignity in them, became mere tools of a technical machinery which
>is called capitalism. It is an abomination, shouts Simone. It is a
>scandal, we also may shout with her.

You will look long and hard to find any credible connection between Weil's
work and philosophy of technology. Her mysticism may make for fascinating
conversation over a bottle of wine and candle light. It has little to do
with empirical reality.

>
>At the very roots of this machinery there is the corruption of the
>the human mind, which gave away his own human authority to machines,
>to technique. Heidegger, another European, may also have had a very
>important point here.
>                                                           Sz. Zoli

As I pointed out during the threads I posted weeks ago on Heidegger (and
which you conveniently chose to overlook), the machinery is pretty much
value-neutral. It takes human will and human genius to make it kill and
maim. It's all well and good to blather about human dignity. But that
dignity is far more often under siege from humanity itself than any
impersonal technology or machinery.

Why don't you stop wasting our time by quoting from books you've checked
out of the library and flesh out this "third way" of yours, oh great one?
Give us some specifics about what its implementation would mean for
Hungary. As far as I can tell so far, you're beating your gums and not
offering any substance. My guess is the best you'll be able to come up
with is Szalasi gussied up in the rhetoric of French poststructuralism.
Sam Stowe


Born to laugh at hurricanes.

Marina Pflieger writes:

> My recollection of the events and the mood of the times is different. I
> remember how upset some people were, because the Cardinal asked for the
> return of all church property in his speach. The feeling was, that there
were
> other issues more important to discuss. The country wanted to be read of
the
> Soviet yoke along with communism -- without returning to the old ways
(before
> WW2). Times have changed, the hope was to create a democratic
> government/society. But than again, I can only speak of my experience.

I am sorry, but the good cardinal did not ask for the return of all the
church property. I have litened at the time very carefully, because I was
afraid that he may say something inappropriate due to his being away from
reality (locked up) for a while. He may have had many faults, but lets not
attribute incorrect statements to him. As far as I know the tape recording
of his speach is available.

This just shows that our "experiences" as we remember them are not always
correct

Regards,Jeliko

Another quote from Simone Weil offers God-bashers
as Mark and his alikes a guide about how to try the
appreciation of Him:                        (Sz.Z.)

          "...It is not for man to seek, or even to believe in
          God. He has only to refuse to believe in everything that
          is not God. This refusal does not presuppose belief. It
          is enough to recognize, what is obvious to any mind,
          that all the goods of this world, past, present, or
          future, real or imaginary, are finite and limited and
          radically incapable of satisfying the desire which burns
          perpetually with in us for an infinite and perfect
          good... It is not a matter of self-questioning or
          searching. A man has only to persist in his refusal, and
          one day or another God will come to him."

          -- Weil, Simone, ON SCIENCE, NECESSITY, AND THE LOVE OF
          GOD, ed.     Richard Rees, London, Oxford University
          Press, 1968.- )

Sam:
> As I pointed out (...) the machinery is pretty much
> value-neutral. It takes human will and human genius to make it kill and
> maim.
Are you talking about the Desert Storm technique, which
is going to be reused by Clinton, or what? Just asking...

                                                (Sz.Z)

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At 08:47 PM 9/16/96 -0400, Burian wrote:

>Separated at birth: Princess Di and Kadar Janos.  Take away the make-up
>(hers, not his) and look at their smiles, then see if I'm crazy.  Too bad
>he didn't go in for colonic irrigations like she did--Hungary might have
>had some mellower times.

Colonic irrigations, eh?  Hmmm.  How would you know?  Are you implying that
the occasional high colonic would/could change history?  Interesting idea.

Joe Szalai

Dear George and group;

At 12:27 AM 8/24/96 GMT, you wrote:

>In article >,  says...
>>
>>The most superior culture is the one which if removed would affect the
>>most the Western Civilization.
>>I doubt is the Hungarian Culture, try Italian.
>
>Western civilization owes its existence to the pre-Christian Greeks.
>Remove the Greeks and the whole intellectual, cultural and historical
>basis for Western Civilization disappears.
>
>--
Although this posting to which I'm wisecracking is a bit old, it seemed the bes
t
 to use for a comeback--pun intended.

None of them is superior: it's currently, and has been for the past couple of
 hundred years, the U.S., of course!!! ;-)

And without a present or future, who would be around to worry about the
 past,right? ;-)

Cecilia


N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA

Dear Elemes;

At 01:55 PM 7/22/96 +0200, you wrote:


>By the way -- hashish (marijuana, etc) is legal or illegal in the States?
>
Although this is a bit late--it's illegal, just unenforceably so.  Half the
 so-called students in California's public high schools over the age of 15 are
 "regular users," for instance.  Also the CIA was selling it to our own people
 long before it decided crack was more lucrative...

However to have the public school officials and parents looking the other way i
f
 not encouraging regular use, and parts of the government selling it ensures
 that all those who hold jobs in law enforcement, drug treatment, social work,
 etc., etc. will have nice jobs for life and then wonderful retirement savings.

This country is not really serious about getting rid of crime and drugs, but it
 makes great election year rhetoric, and popular self-righteous
 attention-attracting statements at all kinds of social occasions where people
 want to be popular and feel good about themselves.

It's also not a good idea to trust the general lack of enforcement because you
 never know when you'll come across the law enforcement official or politician
 who needs an example to pretend the country's really serious.--A bit like
 Russian roulette with several million bureacrats instead of bullets... ;-)

Now up where I've been spending a little time lately we have a more realistic
 approach to the situation.  We leave the marijuana growers alone and feed the
 local mountain lions with the meth-makers.  It saves the county sheriff a whol
e
 lot of paperwork. ;-)

Cecilia





N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA

Dear Joe;

At 05:27 PM 7/30/96 -0400, you wrote:

>This little article is in today's Record (Kitchener).
>-----
>TELEGDI TO HELP BUILD HOUSES
>
>Waterloo MP Andrew Telegdi will be in Hungary from Aug. 11 to 16 to help
>build houses with Habitat For Humanity.
>
>Telegdi, who was born in Budapest, will join former U.S. president Jimmy
>Carter, Ed Schreyer, a former governor general of Canada, and 600 volunteers
>from across North America and Europe to help build 10 houses that week.
>
>The project in Vac, Hungary, is the 13th annual Jimmy Carter Work Project.
>In 1993, the first work projects held outside the United States were in
>Waterloo and Winnipeg.
>-----
>
>Joe Szalai
>
A belated thanks for the info.  I'm a bit behind on both mail and e-mail and
 still haven't gotten to my HFH newsletters.  It's nice to know that _some_
 organization really uses my money where I wrote and told them I wanted it used
.
  I'm a regular member of HFH and donate as much as I can every year.  It's a
 darned good organization--and I don't even really like Jimmy Carter much excep
t
 mostly when he's at HFH! ;-)

Cecilia




N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA

Dear Joe and group;

At 12:44 PM 8/5/96 -0400, you wrote:

>At 10:40 AM 8/5/96 -0400, Frank Aycock wrote:
>
>>Actually, if the U.S. did take over Canada then English would become the
>>official language of Canada, too, like the Congress is doing right now.
>>Canadians would no longer need bilingual signs! :-) :-) :-)
>
>I'm in favour of bilingual signs.  Official bilingualism acknowledges that
>Canada is not just an English speaking nation.  It also sets Canadians apart
>from that 'Great Satan' to the south.
>
>I think that bilingual signs would be a good think in Slovakia and Romania.
>It would make the Magyar speaking people feel a bit more at home in those
>countries.  As it is now, the Slovak and Romanian law makers just have to
>glance at America's unilingual law and feel that they too are moving in the
>right direction.
>
>Joe Szalai
>
>

Unfortunately, or fortunately, the U.S. does not have a unilingual _law_ yet.
 There are several legislative proposals but the ones most likely to get
 anywhere would only require government transactions, to be conducted in
 English--like driver's license exams.  There's not likely to be any
 restrictions on local or even regional businesses, certainly none regarding
 cultural festivals, use in homes and private schools, and although English
 might--and that's not certain--become the "principal" language in public
 schools, other language classes will go on--especially Spanish as an ESL
 course, second language courses in more than a dozen languages, etc..

Interestingly, the majority of Chinese Americans out here (SF Bay area, but mor
e
 so in Silicon Valley) are in favor of an "English first" (not "only" law)
 similar to some of the proposals.

Part of the problem in the U.S. is that in some areas we have not just a second
 prominent language but several all at once.  In this area alone if we made
 traffic signs in all the languages which have any sizeable percentage of
 speakers/readers and be equally fair to all, we'd give the freeway parking lot
s
 enough reading material to finally violate the federal billboard laws--in ever
y
 one of about 2,000 square miles.  And the albido effect from all the sign
 materials would plunge the area into permanent drought!  Even if you can't
 stand Americans, please have pity on the Bay area wildlife. :-)  (Having been
 working a little on a couple of elections out here, trust me, it's really that
 bad.)

Cecilia

By the way, I enjoy a variant of your cucumber salad, when I'm not making the
 one with sour cream, garlic and paprika.  I do add a little garlic and dill to
 it though along with the onions.  I've been indulging in a lot of cucumber
 salad since the European hybrid cukes dropped in price to 3 for a dollar...

By the way, your recipe is good in a tomato, bell pepper, cucumber and broccoli
 salad, too.!




N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA

At 10:19 AM 9/8/96 -0500, you wrote:

>So how you get a senator out of that?
>
>A.Albu
>
>
To borrow from Eddie Murphy's film a few years ago, put the name on a ballot in
 California and let the people think it's "Lantos." ;-)

Cecilia



N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA